Skip to content
  • About
  • Contact
  • Contribute
  • What Physicians Say
  • My Book
  • Careers
  • Podcast
  • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
  • About Kevin Pho, MD, Founder of KevinMD
  • Aging and dementia: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Artificial intelligence: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Be heard on social media’s leading physician voice
  • Cancer: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Children’s health: what pediatricians say, in their own words
  • Contact Kevin
  • COVID-19: what physicians wrote as it happened
  • Custom enhanced author page pricing
  • Diabetes and obesity: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Direct primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • DMCA Policy
  • End of life: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Establishing, Managing, and Protecting Your Online Reputation: A Social Media Guide for Physicians and Medical Practices
  • GLP-1 drugs: what physicians say about Ozempic and its successors, in their own words
  • Heart disease: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Immigration and medicine: what physicians say about immigrant doctors and immigrant patients, in their own words
  • KevinMD influencer opportunities
  • Medical errors: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical ethics: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical malpractice: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical school: what students and physicians say, in their own words
  • Mental health: what psychiatrists and physicians say, in their own words
  • Nursing: what nurses and physicians say, in their own words
  • Opinion and commentary by KevinMD
  • Opioids: what physicians and pain patients say, in their own words
  • Physician burnout speakers to keynote your conference
  • Physician burnout: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physician Coaching by KevinMD
  • Physician keynote speaker: Kevin Pho, MD
  • Physician personal finance: what physicians say about their own money, in their own words
  • Physician Speaking by KevinMD: a boutique speakers bureau
  • Physician suicide: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physicians and administrators: what physicians say about who runs medicine, in their own words
  • Primary care physician in Nashua, NH | Kevin Pho, MD
  • Primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Prior authorization: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Privacy Policy
  • Private equity and corporate medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Race and medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Recommended services by KevinMD
  • Residency: what residents and attendings say, in their own words
  • Scope of practice: what physicians, nurse practitioners, and PAs say, in their own words
  • Subscribe to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • Subscribe to the newsletter
  • Surgeons and surgery: what surgeons say, in their own words
  • Take-home messages: what physicians say when asked to leave one
  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Thank you for subscribing to KevinMD
  • Thank you for upgrading to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • The electronic health record: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Vaccines: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Violence against health care workers: what physicians and nurses say, in their own words
  • What physicians say: the KevinMD records
  • Women in medicine: what women physicians say, in their own words
  • Women’s health: what physicians say, in their own words

What if EMRs can never capture the clinical experience?

Fred N. Pelzman, MD
Health Technology
March 11, 2019
Share
Tweet
Share

Apocryphal story from residency:

On morning rounds in the critical care unit, the post-call resident starts to present a complicated patient admitted overnight with chest pain, and after the first bits of the history have been presented, the wise old cardiology attending turns to the gathered medical students who are just starting their first clinical rotation and asks them what they think this could be.

One medical student bravely raises their hand and says, “Acute aortic dissection and regurgitation secondary to relapsing polychondritis.”

Stunned, the cardiologist says, “That’s incredible, you’re absolutely right, how could you possibly know that?”

To which the medical student replies, “What else causes chest pain?”

For some reason, this old story popped into my head again after our most recent workgroup session on helping develop new functionality in the electronic health record.

The development team from our electronic health record vendor asked for clinical input — from those of us actually taking care of patients — about developing some of the cool new tools they are working on for the next version of our electronic health record (EHR) coming soon to our institution.

The group of primary care providers meets with their team and offers advice, recommendations, and feedback.

The EHR has lots of built-in functionality, things that they’ve designed which they think will help make our lives easier.

They group things together into these modules for clinical problems, and when you select one of them it brings in a whole menu of items across various categories, from potential diagnoses; a checklist of orders for various items such as labs, referrals, imaging, medications, and in-office treatments; some templated note functionality; and even options for choosing level of service for billing.

They think that this is going to make our lives easier, but everyone on this committee keeps scratching their heads and saying, “When am I possibly going to use this; is this really going to make my life more efficient, or is it going to end up creating some templated junk that really doesn’t do what we think the medical record is supposed to do?”

Take, for instance, the tool they have for evaluating a patient with “fever.” The workflow started with a list of diagnoses that do, in fact, present with fevers — but it was such a random selection of things.

True, the list did include influenza, cellulitis, urinary tract infection, pneumonia, and many others. Some seemed more random, such as viral infection and acute hepatitis.

ADVERTISEMENT

But if we already know what the diagnosis is, why are we trying to figure out what’s causing their fever? Why would we be using this tool to help figure out what it is, if we already know they have influenza?

The orderable tests seemed scattered across all of medicine, some we would never order, and some I have never ordered (ultrasound rectum, routine?), no matter what I thought was going on.

The “fatigue” order set was also unhelpful, both too specific and way too vague. Diagnoses included transient heat stroke, depression, and anemia — plus neurasthenia, about the vaguest diagnosis there is.

Options for testing ran from the sublime to the ridiculous. Phosphorous and aldosterone, MRI of the brain and referral to infectious diseases. Medication choices included a vast array of stimulants for narcolepsy, and sleeping pills.

These do not seem to work either for acute presentations as first-line workups, or more intensive investigations when the diagnosis has remained elusive. This is not how patients flow through an office visit; this is not how clinical care happens.

Our interactions with our patients, and our decisions about what might be going on, and what additional testing we might need, happen in an organic, messy, real-life manner, which is really, really, really hard to put into some narrow templated framework.

There are certainly instances where it would be nice to have clustered together a group of the things that you do every time for a certain clinical situation. There are lots of things that we do in primary care — and many things in subspecialty medicine, and probably many more that the sub-subspecialists do — that are almost always done the same way. For these sorts of things, in terms of evaluation and management, diagnosis and treatment, it is certainly worth developing tech tools to make these regular and routine clinical interactions go more smoothly, and ease the documentation burden in the EHR.

Most of us agreed that concrete clinical complaints like cough, chest pain, and palpitations might work out okay with this format. But something as vague as fever or fatigue just doesn’t seem to lend itself to this sort of technical solution.

If we turn all of our clinical documentation into a bunch of checkboxes and toggle selections from lists, I fear that our charts will continue to degrade towards unreadable garbage that offers no insight into what we were thinking, what we wanted to do, and what the heck was going on with our patients.

We appreciate being asked to participate in the development of the next generation of our electronic health record, but moving forward we need to make sure that our voices are heard, that our needs and the needs of our patients are met, and that what we come out with at the other end is truly the best system to take care of our patients, not just something the computer programmers think is easy to build.

There is more poetry than accounting in the care we provide for our patients, and the art of figuring out what is going on and how we can get our patients to a better state of health will always be a challenge to force into a menu of little clicky boxes.

Because, what else could it be?

Fred N. Pelzman is an internal medicine physician who blogs at MedPage Today’s Building the Patient-Centered Medical Home.

Image credit: Shutterstock.com

Prev

Communication in the hospital setting from a medical student perspective

March 11, 2019 Kevin 0
…
Next

Health care workers and administrators aren't rowing in the same direction

March 11, 2019 Kevin 2
…

Tagged as: Health IT and AI in Medicine, Primary Care

< Previous Post
Communication in the hospital setting from a medical student perspective
Next Post >
Health care workers and administrators aren't rowing in the same direction

 

ADVERTISEMENT

More by Fred N. Pelzman, MD

  • Why electronic medical records should be standardized

    Fred N. Pelzman, MD
  • Can answers to after hours calls be automated?

    Fred N. Pelzman, MD
  • We have to do better than DNR tattoos

    Fred N. Pelzman, MD

Related Posts

  • 13 tips for medical students starting their clinical rotations

    Netana Markovitz
  • For medical students: 20 pearls to honor every clinical rotation

    Ton La, Jr., MD, JD
  • The benefits of early clinical exposure in medical education

    Karan Patel
  • The post-baccalaureate pre-health program experience

    Sheindel Ifrah
  • How to unite medical students in the preclinical and clinical years

    Michael Aljadah
  • My first objective structured clinical examination

    Johnathan Yao, MD, MPH

More in Health Technology

  • Cited but never checked

    Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

    Nicole Drapeau Gillen
  • How AI phone systems in health care create barriers

    Thuy D. Bui, MD
  • AI data centers and public health demand regulation

    Jacob Player, MD, MPH
  • ChatGPT for triage: 5 rules I teach ER residents

    Harvey Castro, MD, MBA
  • Automation bias in health care can become paternalism

    John Wei, MD
  • 4 workflow fixes that cut physician burnout at the source

    Kevin Halow, MD, MBA
  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
    • Burnout isn’t only about autonomy, it’s about your bank account [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology
    • How AI phone systems in health care create barriers

      Thuy D. Bui, MD | Health Technology

Subscribe to KevinMD and never miss a story!

Get free updates delivered free to your inbox.


Find jobs at
Careers by KevinMD.com

Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now.

Learn more

View 3 Comments >

Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and patients share their insight and tell their stories.

Social

  • Like on Facebook
  • Follow on Twitter
  • Connect on Linkedin
  • Subscribe on Youtube
  • Instagram

ADVERTISEMENT

  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
    • Burnout isn’t only about autonomy, it’s about your bank account [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology
    • How AI phone systems in health care create barriers

      Thuy D. Bui, MD | Health Technology

Copyright © 2026 KevinMD.com | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme

  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Privacy Policy
  • DMCA Policy
All Content © KevinMD, LLC
Site by Outthink Group

What if EMRs can never capture the clinical experience?
3 comments

Comments are moderated before they are published. Please read the comment policy.

Loading Comments...