Skip to content
  • About
  • Contact
  • Contribute
  • What Physicians Say
  • My Book
  • Careers
  • Podcast
  • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
  • About Kevin Pho, MD, Founder of KevinMD
  • Aging and dementia: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Artificial intelligence: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Be heard on social media’s leading physician voice
  • Cancer: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Children’s health: what pediatricians say, in their own words
  • Contact Kevin
  • COVID-19: what physicians wrote as it happened
  • Custom enhanced author page pricing
  • Diabetes and obesity: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Direct primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • DMCA Policy
  • End of life: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Establishing, Managing, and Protecting Your Online Reputation: A Social Media Guide for Physicians and Medical Practices
  • GLP-1 drugs: what physicians say about Ozempic and its successors, in their own words
  • Heart disease: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Immigration and medicine: what physicians say about immigrant doctors and immigrant patients, in their own words
  • KevinMD influencer opportunities
  • Medical errors: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical ethics: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical malpractice: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical school: what students and physicians say, in their own words
  • Mental health: what psychiatrists and physicians say, in their own words
  • Nursing: what nurses and physicians say, in their own words
  • Opinion and commentary by KevinMD
  • Opioids: what physicians and pain patients say, in their own words
  • Physician burnout speakers to keynote your conference
  • Physician burnout: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physician Coaching by KevinMD
  • Physician keynote speaker: Kevin Pho, MD
  • Physician personal finance: what physicians say about their own money, in their own words
  • Physician Speaking by KevinMD: a boutique speakers bureau
  • Physician suicide: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physicians and administrators: what physicians say about who runs medicine, in their own words
  • Primary care physician in Nashua, NH | Kevin Pho, MD
  • Primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Prior authorization: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Privacy Policy
  • Private equity and corporate medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Race and medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Recommended services by KevinMD
  • Residency: what residents and attendings say, in their own words
  • Scope of practice: what physicians, nurse practitioners, and PAs say, in their own words
  • Subscribe to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • Subscribe to the newsletter
  • Surgeons and surgery: what surgeons say, in their own words
  • Take-home messages: what physicians say when asked to leave one
  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Thank you for subscribing to KevinMD
  • Thank you for upgrading to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • The electronic health record: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Vaccines: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Violence against health care workers: what physicians and nurses say, in their own words
  • What physicians say: the KevinMD records
  • Women in medicine: what women physicians say, in their own words
  • Women’s health: what physicians say, in their own words

Are hospitals really soaking the poor with high prices?

Chris Rangel, MD
Health Policy
June 16, 2013
Share
Tweet
Share

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid recently released its compiled data on what over 3,000 hospitals across the country charge for 100 of the most common discharge diagnostic codes under the diagnosis related group (DRG) system, and boy did the DRG really hit the fan.  Liberals, economists, and band wagoners got all upset about the enormous pricing differentials between hospitals for the same services.

For example, Twin Cities Community Hospital in Templeton California charged an average of $123,500 for a diagnosis of pulmonary edema with respiratory failure while Kaiser Foundation Hospital in Sacramento California charged just $25,000 for the same diagnosis.

“That’s outrageous,” they shouted.

Time’s Steven Brill spends an entire article using anecdotal evidence of wild hospital over-charges before claiming that this is the reason “why medical bills are killing us.”

The Huffington Post referred to hospitals as loan sharks. And the Motley Fool’s Morgan Housel described what it would be like to try and buy a banana if the supermarket used the same “insane” economic system as the health care industry.

Imagine a banana in a supermarket. It costs $1 for those paying with Visa, $3 for those paying with MasterCard, and $32 for those paying with cash. You can’t sign up for Visa until you’re 65, and you can only get a MasterCard if you have a nice employer or a decent income. Worse, customers have no idea that such price discrepancy exists. They don’t even know how much they’ll pay for the banana until long after they’ve eaten it . . . That would be absurd. No one would put up with it

And it would be absurd if it were true.  But, no one bothers to point out that the vast majority of patients never get billed for nor have to pay these exorbitant prices. Our insurance driven health care finance system operates more like a foreign bazaar than an American style supermarket. In the bazaar as in American hospitals, the prices for goods and services are always set much higher than anyone is willing to pay. The merchant (hospital) then negotiates (haggles) with each customer (insurance) over what they are willing to pay – in other words – to reimburse the merchant. The reimbursement is what is being negotiated and not the set price which simply serves as a starting point to the negotiation. Housel’s banana analogy implies that there are different prices for the same product based on the method of payment but this just isn’t true.

In the example above, hospital prices for the treatment of pulmonary edema ranged from about $23,000 to well over $130,000 but the amounts actually paid by Medicare were in the range of about $8,000 to about $14,000. I was unable to find a single hospital price that was lower than or equal to the government reimbursement amounts. This makes sense. One can’t run a successful business by starting off negotiations with a losing position.

Hospital finance departments try and set their prices based on their best guesses as to what the highest paying private insurance reimbursements will be. They factor in such things as local competition from other hospitals, the size of the local insurance coverage, and the strengths of their own services which may have nothing to do with the delivery of health care. For example, one hospital could offer all private regular rooms while other hospitals have a limited number of private rooms. Patients like private rooms and so this is a negotiating strength for the hospital that has nothing to do with the cost of treatment for pulmonary edema.

The chargemasters in these finance departments obviously try and err on the side of over-pricing their services rather then risk losing out on any reimbursement. Given the complexity and uncertainty of health care reimbursement it should not be surprising that some hospitals have wildly overly optimistic pricing that has nothing to do with the actual cost of their services. It’s hardly a unique situation in capitalism. Or do you really believe that the prices for food and drink at the local metroplex are based on anything resembling reality. Except that the movie theaters actually expect you to pay the listed prices for their terrible food.

Which brings us to the center point of most of the liberal angst over this alleged hospital pricing scandal. Anecdotal evidence aside, there is no statistical evidence that any significant numbers of uninsured patients get stuck with a full priced bill for a few days of admission and treatment for pulmonary edema. Part of the reason is that up to 75% of uncompensated care – that is bad debt and charity care for the uninsured – is eventually reimbursed through various goverment programs. For example, many of the uninsured who are hospitalized for serious and disabling illness or injury can qualify for emergency Medicaid coverage that is retroactive to the date of onset and paid for at the always low Medicaid rates.

Many critics make the nonsensical implied assumption that hospitals are getting rich by charging the poor the maximum price. How does this work exactly? Are people who couldn’t even afford low cost catastrophic health insurance in the first place somehow able to get bank loans for what amounts to an unsecured mortgage? Does the hospital work out a payment plan of $50 a month for the next 166 years on a $100,000 hospital bill? It makes no financial sense for a hospital to charge an uninsured patient several times over the usual Medicare rate for a single diagnosis. The hospital’s main goal in these cases is to minimize its bad debt and recoup the operating costs for care of the uninsured that is mandated by Federal law. As mentioned, these funds usually come from the government and for those patient’s who don’t qualify for a government program most hospitals offer a discount plan for self-pay patients that is more on par with Medicare and Medicaid rates. These plans are even required by some states like California.

And just how much money are hospitals making off these outrageous prices? Medicare and Medicaid pay just under the operating costs of most hospitals. Collectively US hospitals lost almost $28 billion in 2010 from government underpayment. In 2011, US hospitals lost over $41 billion in uncompensated care (both bad debt and charity care). The vast majority of profit that hospitals make comes from private insurance reimbursements but even then the profit margin for most hospitals is relatively small. In 2004, the hospital industry hit a 6 year profit high of 5.2% though the usual profit margin is 2 to 4% and even this was not enough to prevent half of hospitals from losing money in the great recession of 2008. In contrast, British Petroleum reported a 15% profit margin for this month alone.  And how much free fuel did the oil industry give away to charity, not counting the 200 million gallons of crude that BP dumped into the Gulf of Mexico in 2010?

ADVERTISEMENT

According to liberals, hospitals are soaking the poor and the government to make profits that significantly contribute to the $2.8 Trillion that we spend on health care every year. But this doesn’t make sense. If anything, hospitals are soaking the rich by contracting to get reimbursement from private insurances at rates well above those paid by the government for the exact same services.

Health care is expensive because it’s a service that is heavily dependent on highly educated skilled labor and advanced technology and it’s in great demand in this country. To suggest that hospital accounting methods are to blame for any part of our almost 3 trillion dollar per year health care bill is political wishful thinking. It’s part of the liberal “evil corporation theory” on why health care is so expensive i.e. that hospitals can just dictate high prices to a captive audience. This is true of the out of control spending and taxation of the Federal government but not for the hospital industry which at least operates on some semblance of economic logic even it’s the bizarre logic of a bazaar.

Chris Rangel is an internal medicine physician who blogs at RangelMD.com.

Prev

Are ER services really the cost villains?

June 15, 2013 Kevin 7
…
Next

Who's truly responsible for the $2.7 trillion medical bill?

June 16, 2013 Kevin 18
…

Tagged as: Hospital Medicine, Medicare

< Previous Post
Are ER services really the cost villains?
Next Post >
Who's truly responsible for the $2.7 trillion medical bill?

 

ADVERTISEMENT

More by Chris Rangel, MD

  • a desk with keyboard and ipad with the kevinmd logo

    Are Cadillac plans responsible for rising health costs?

    Chris Rangel, MD
  • Should drug testing be considered screening tests?

    Chris Rangel, MD
  • How doctors will use Google Glass

    Chris Rangel, MD

Related Posts

  • Don’t judge when trainees use dating apps in the hospital

    Austin Perlmutter, MD
  • How hospitals prepare for hurricanes

    Daniel B. Hess, PhD
  • How hospitals drive up health costs

    Elisabeth Rosenthal, MD
  • How hospitals can help with the opioid epidemic

    Richard Bottner, PA-C and Christopher Moriates, MD
  • What hospitals can learn from the RaDonda Vaught case

    Carmen Presti, DNP, APRN
  • 10 things patients should know about hospitals

    David Slone, NP

More in Health Policy

  • The next child

    Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

    Steven Merahn, MD
  • How to build a dementia care pathway, not a referral sheet

    Gerald Kuo
  • AI in prior authorization: 3 contract questions for 2027

    Matt Hasan, PhD
  • Private equity in medicine did not kill private practice

    Brian Hudes, MD
  • Why are fewer family physicians delivering babies?

    Frista Gradica
  • Local news and public health: the segment viewers missed

    Ronald L. Lindsay, MD
  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
    • Burnout isn’t only about autonomy, it’s about your bank account [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology
    • How AI phone systems in health care create barriers

      Thuy D. Bui, MD | Health Technology

Subscribe to KevinMD and never miss a story!

Get free updates delivered free to your inbox.


Find jobs at
Careers by KevinMD.com

Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now.

Learn more

View 7 Comments >

Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and patients share their insight and tell their stories.

Social

  • Like on Facebook
  • Follow on Twitter
  • Connect on Linkedin
  • Subscribe on Youtube
  • Instagram

ADVERTISEMENT

  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
    • Burnout isn’t only about autonomy, it’s about your bank account [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology
    • How AI phone systems in health care create barriers

      Thuy D. Bui, MD | Health Technology

Copyright © 2026 KevinMD.com | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme

  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Privacy Policy
  • DMCA Policy
All Content © KevinMD, LLC
Site by Outthink Group

Are hospitals really soaking the poor with high prices?
7 comments

Comments are moderated before they are published. Please read the comment policy.

Loading Comments...