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Physician, former health care executive, certified coach, speaker, and organizational consultant Laura Suttin discusses her article “Why the 4 a.m. wake-up call isn’t for everyone.” Laura shares her personal struggle with the popular productivity advice that claims early rising is the only path to high performance. She describes the fog and misery she experienced while trying to force her body into a rhythm that did not match her natural energy patterns. The conversation highlights the dangers of comparing your internal reality to the curated highlight reels of gurus on social media. Laura explains how she learned to drop the self-judgment and give herself permission to work in a way that felt authentic and sustainable. Discover how defining success by how it feels, rather than what the clock says, can lead to genuine peace and ambition.

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Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/podcast. Today we welcome back Laura Suttin. She is a physician, executive, and coach. Today’s KevinMD article is “Why the 4:00 a.m. wake-up call isn’t for everyone.” Laura, welcome back to the show.

Laura Suttin: Thanks. It is good to be here with you. Thanks for having me.

Kevin Pho: All right, so tell us about this latest article about why you wrote it in the first place and then the article itself for those who did not get a chance to read it.

Laura Suttin: The article is really about how I had this insight that certain pieces of advice or certain things that we might be encouraged to do to help with our well-being just are not for everybody. It is not a one-size-fits-all. I noticed this for myself and for my clients, the physician clients that I work with in my coaching capacity.

There was this tendency to really latch onto what is the latest and greatest or what it is that I need to be successful. There is this ethos out there that I have to wake up early. I have to get everything done that I need to get done before the rest of the world wakes up. I tried that for myself, and it did not work for me. I have had clients that have tried that as well, and it did not work for them. So it was an insight that I had, and I wanted people to feel safe and OK to give themselves permission to buck these trends.

Kevin Pho: Now, for those physicians who hear advice about waking up early at 4:00 a.m., where are they getting that advice from? Do they find it from CEOs and executives who say, “You have to get up at 4:00 a.m.”? Where are they getting this advice from in the first place?

Laura Suttin: Well, there are a lot of social media influencers, of course, who talk about it. There are a lot of productivity books and hacks that are out there that talk about waking up early. I had leaders within my own organization that I knew were up at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning emailing and working. I saw that example modeled for me, not in everybody, but in enough people that it felt like I was going to get behind if I wasn’t waking up at 4:00 in the morning.

That is where it came from for me. I hear that from my clients too. They say: “Well, everybody says that I need to wake up that early in order to be successful.” So the article was just to say that is not necessary.

Kevin Pho: So tell us more about your experience. You said that you tried it in the past and then it didn’t quite work out for you, so tell us what happened.

Laura Suttin: One of my hobbies is running, and I love running half-marathon distances. That requires a level of intensity of training. As a full-time entrepreneur, parent, wife, and all the things, I toyed with when I was going to get this done. I tried waking up really early. Part of it was because I live in South Texas, and it is very hot in the summer. Really, if you want to run outside, the only time it can be done is when it is dark outside. Otherwise, it is just too hot.

So I tried this for myself, and I realized I was exhausted rather than feeling full of spark and productive like all the advice I had gotten. I was exhausted and I could not function. I needed a two-hour nap every day, and it just wasn’t better for my well-being. I talked with enough people that I realized that if this wasn’t working for me, then why was I doing this? I feel like I was doing it just because somebody told me I should, and that is the way I need to be successful.

Kevin Pho: So how did you pivot? What did you do next when you realized that waking up that early wasn’t working out for you?

Laura Suttin: So I let myself sleep in a little bit and I realized that if this training and this exercise is really important to me and 4:00 a.m. is not the time to do it, well, when is that going to get done? I had to work that into my schedule. Again, this is something that I hear my clients talk about, feeling like there is so much to do in the day and not enough time to get it done. Yes, that is true. So we have to be intentional. We have to pick and choose. We can’t do everything.

If I am going to get my run in, is that going to be in the evening or in the middle of the day? Since I work for myself, I can set my own schedule. Does that mean that I give up something else, like TV in the evenings or whatever that looks like? It is really just about understanding what my priorities are, and sleep is one of those priorities. So I have to fit that in as well.

Kevin Pho: So a lot of doctors default to an early morning, right? Because during training they have to wake up at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning to do rounds. So do you find a lot of your physician clients just default to waking up early if they want to get that extra productivity in?

Laura Suttin: I think it works for some people. Yes, I have friends and relatives who are runners just like me, and that is when they work out. But it doesn’t work for everybody. That was really what I was trying to say with the article. If it doesn’t work for you, then that is OK. If somebody is trying to force a schedule that doesn’t work for them, they are going to feel exhausted and drained and then feel this guilt. They might ask: “Well, what’s wrong with me that this doesn’t work for me? It feels like everybody else is waking up at 4:00 in the morning and being successful. What’s wrong with me?” So I just wanted to get that message out that there is nothing wrong with you. This just isn’t for everybody.

Kevin Pho: You mentioned that word guilt. Where are they feeling guilty from? Did you find that you had external pressures from other people if you couldn’t wake up at 4:00 in the morning and get all that work done like a lot of other entrepreneurs? Where did you feel that guilt from?

Laura Suttin: Yeah, I felt it when I was in my previous role. I was a medical director for a large health system, and so I did have enough people that would wake up early in the morning and get work done. By the time I logged on or got to the office at 7:30 or 8:00 in the morning, my inbox was full.

That is not a great way to start the day. So it did feel like if I am not doing this, then I am already behind for the morning. It felt like there was no way to catch up. There was no way to get in front of the work that was ahead of me for the day. So it was a guilt feeling. That is a big part of the book that I wrote a couple of years ago, The Purposeful MD: Creating the Life You Love Without Guilt. We don’t have to feel guilty for these things. We don’t have to feel guilty for getting the sleep that we need. That is a biological imperative. We don’t have to feel guilty for operating at a schedule that works best for us if that schedule does not include waking up at 4:00.

Kevin Pho: So how much is it the culture of the organization that you’re working in that kind of pressures their leaders to all conform to the same schedule? And if you work for such an organization, how can you push back against that culture?

Laura Suttin: Yeah, I feel like it is very pervasive. Each practice, each system, and each organization is going to have its own subculture. Then within that, depending on the size of course, teams are going to have their own subculture. But it is very pervasive. I see this in health care with my physician clients. This guilt for not having the same schedule is real.

I am seeing a little bit more flexibility now in my clients that are requesting alternate schedules. Like I had one client the other day who really wanted to work 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m., and she was prepping for how to present this to her boss and her team. I think we are starting to see this concept that not everybody needs to be at the office or in front of the computer from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. We can have some flexibility. People are different. People are going to have different styles and different times that they operate best. That has been really apparent for me too as an entrepreneur. There are certain times of the day where I am more energetic than others, so I know that about myself. I am not going to schedule deep work or a lot of client work during the time when I have low energy because I just won’t get anything done.

Kevin Pho: And I think this is connected with physician burnout, right? Because one of the few things physicians still have control over is their schedule. So if someone does want to work from 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m., I think that they should be allowed to do that. And the fact that this physician client that you’re talking about had to really prep to present that to the boss, to me, there is something wrong with that situation. Right?

Laura Suttin: Yeah.

Kevin Pho: So in that particular situation, what did you do? How did you coach that client to present more palatable work hours?

Laura Suttin: In most situations where there is a client who has an idea of something that they want, and they have to essentially get their leaders to buy into it and to sign off and agree to it, I always ask them questions. I say: “Put yourself in your leader’s shoes. What would you need to hear in order to make this an automatic yes?”

I suggest thinking about things like what is important to a leader. How can you make sure that if you are asking for a shifted schedule or whatever that is, that it is still going to meet the leader’s needs, meet the organization’s needs, and meet the team needs? What are the benefits to what you are asking?

In a situation where a client or a physician might want to work 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m., there are probably a lot of patients who would rather come in at 7:00 a.m. My dentist has 7:00 a.m. appointments, and I love it because I can go in and it doesn’t affect my work hours. So there are probably also staff who would rather work that schedule. Start with what the benefits to the team are. What are the benefits to the organization that will make it an automatic yes? Make it at least hard for the leader to say no because otherwise, if it is just couched as “Well, I want this for myself,” then the leader still might say yes, but it is easier to say yes if you are essentially selling it.

Kevin Pho: So you always have to frame your request in terms of how it best benefits patients and the organization, right?

Laura Suttin: Yes, absolutely.

Kevin Pho: So when you changed your schedule and stopped working those pre-dawn hours, tell us about how your creativity and your actual output changed when you worked at a schedule that was better suited to you.

Laura Suttin: It allowed me to really see when I am most creative and most energetic. I was really surprised by what I found because I had been forcing myself into this schedule where I get started very early and then finish up around 4:00 or 5:00. When I shifted that, I noticed that the schedule that actually worked best for me is to get started a little bit later and go a little bit later into the afternoon and early evening because I have an energy boost around 4:00.

That was very eye-opening and unexpected for me. But once I realized it and I started just riding that wave, then I was able to get more accomplished during the day and feel more productive. I felt just more accomplished with myself that I was really working with my own body rhythms and needs. Again, I was not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Kevin Pho: So for those physicians who perhaps have entrepreneurial aspects that they need to work outside of regular clinic hours, what is the process they can best determine what schedule works for them?

Laura Suttin: I would say just try different types of schedules. Notice when your energy is low. That is a natural thing. There are going to be things like fragmented sleep, exercise, and food intake that are going to impact our energy levels. But just notice what your general trends are. If there are certain times of day that you are more energetic and creative and alert, then you capitalize on that. Utilize that and try to get your best work done then.

Then also notice if there are times you have lower energy. Is that time for rest or a nap? Or are there other things that you can do that do not require as much brain power? Just think of it like a scientist. Be curious about it. Do not judge yourself for it because we all have different rhythms and chronotypes. Yours might not match somebody else’s, and that is OK.

Kevin Pho: So I am hearing one of the definite takeaways is that there is a spectrum, of course, of optimal schedules that physicians should aim for. Just give us some examples from what you have heard, it could be your physician clients, of different schedules that work best for different physicians. Just to give the audience an idea of what is available out there.

Laura Suttin: Again, this physician that I mentioned worked best early in the morning. She was an early riser, and by mid-afternoon her energy just waned and really dropped. So she wanted to see all of her patients before 3:00 p.m. so she could have a late afternoon to rest and then an evening to spend with her family.

Mine is a little bit different. I am a little bit of a later riser, and my morning is really for myself, my exercise, my journaling, my meditation, and that type of thing. Then I work from about 9:30 until 5:30 or 6:00 with a midday break.

I have had other clients that are kind of forced into waking up and getting going at 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning and then work throughout the day. Then they find an energy boost around 8:00 or 9:00 p.m., so they capitalize on that. Maybe they will catch up on charts or do something else creative, and they allow themselves to sleep in a little bit.

It is just really interesting that the Industrial Revolution forced us into this 9:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday schedule. But not everybody is like that. What works for you might not work for your colleagues or your partner or your kids. So again, just noticing what those rhythms are and utilizing them to the best of your ability is going to be a better recipe.

Kevin Pho: We are talking to Laura Suttin. She is a physician, executive, and coach. Today’s KevinMD article is “Why the 4:00 a.m. wake-up call isn’t for everyone.” Laura, let’s have some take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience.

Laura Suttin: Guilt is not required. If your schedule doesn’t match everybody else’s, that is OK. There is nothing wrong with you. You just operate on a different schedule. Just try different things. Notice what works for you and what doesn’t. It is OK to iterate. It is OK to experiment.

Kevin Pho: Laura, as always, thank you so much for sharing your perspective and insight and thanks for coming back on the show.

Laura Suttin: Thanks for having me.