Skip to content
  • About
  • Contact
  • Contribute
  • Book
  • Careers
  • Podcast
  • Recommended
  • Speaking
  • All
  • Physician
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
  • Video
    • All
    • Physician
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • Video
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Recommended
    • Speaking

Have difficult conversations now to avoid chaos later

Varun Verma, MD
Physician
November 7, 2018
Share
Tweet
Share

“Before I leave, I want to talk to you about something very important. I want to make sure that nothing is ever done against your wishes, so it doesn’t matter if you’re 18 or 98 years of age, if you’re a patient being admitted to the hospital, I need to ask you some questions. You’re stable — so I hope I don’t alarm you with this discussion. Have you ever thought about what you would like done if something unexpected and life-threatening were to happen? Specifically, I need to know…”

After working in a dozen hospitals across five states, this is how I’ve drafted my script on how to end my “history and physical” — my first encounter with any patient under my care. It’s a difficult conversation to initiate, especially with patients who are very sick, because people can become alarmed at the line of questioning. Still, it’s a vital discussion and one that can avoid confusion, chaos and heartache in the terrible final moments a patient’s life. Essentially, I am asking my patients plainly and simply: if their heart was to stop or go into a shockable arrhythmia, would they want chest compressions and/or defibrillation? A second closely related question must inevitably follow. Would they want a breathing tube inserted down their throat and into their trachea (windpipe) and then to be placed on a ventilator (breathing machine) if medically necessary? Many patients, of course, reflexively answer, “Yes, do everything,” but others smile to themselves, shake their head and emphatically offer, “No, let me die.”

I have one motive in this entire exercise: Primum non nocere (a Latin phrase that means “first, to do no harm”). The worst possible outcome in my view for any patient would be undergoing invasive and painful procedures against their will. Besides wanting to avoid inflicting suffering, there’s also a scientific reason for my discussion. Patients need to know that in many cases — elderly patients with multiple serious medical conditions – studies have shown that CPR only leads to the survival to discharge of between 10-15 percent of patients (diseases like COPD, congestive heart failure, chronic kidney disease, malignancy, diabetes, and cirrhosis). I believe that a discussion about code status and advanced directives is essentially for true informed consent in the hospital.

After patients have expressed their wishes, they also need to make sure their loved ones are aware. When I was a night hospitalist many years ago, I had a terrible case where there was no clarity about the code status among relatives, and it led to chaos. A patient stopped breathing in the cancer ward. He was apparently clearly documented as DNR (do not resuscitate) and had a bright colored wristband to signify this. That would have been the end of his difficult health care journey — however, his adult son was present when he took his last breaths. He also happened to be intoxicated and began to perform chest compressions and yelling at the staff for letting his father die. I was paged frantically over the speaker system and arrived to find a chaotic scene. A limp, frail and pale body being pounded on by an angry and strong young man with a red face. Nurses were talking loudly to and over him, informing me the patient was DNR, shoving the paperwork in my face as I looked at nonexistent vital signs on the monitor. For a brief moment I was conflicted about whether to jump in and help the tremendously distraught family member or believe the documentation and call security. The few minutes of uncertainty felt like an eternity until the patient’s daughter stormed in and calmed her brother down and pulled him off. She was her father’s health care proxy, and she confirmed his DNR status. The patient had passed, however not peacefully.

Beyond CPR and intubation, patients also need to have frank discussions with their partners and family members about their wishes for things like dialysis and feeding tubes, and for scenarios which may not be “terminal” but may be unacceptable to them. Filling out advanced directives or documents clearly outlining these specific wishes is imperative. It took me 36 years, a wife and two children before I finally had the sense to finalize my own documents (you don’t need a lawyer by the way — only the signature of witnesses in most states. Here is a link to AARP. On one particular point my wife was taken aback and questioned by choice — “You know you can still have a life even if (fill in the blank) .” True, but this is my life and my decision to make. After a brief back and forth with her, she agreed that my wishes were clearly documented and to be respected. She’s also my health care proxy by the way and is the person designated to make decisions about life-sustaining treatments if I could no longer speak for myself. I’ve tried to be specific in outlining all possible scenarios in my advanced directive — but the reality is that there may still be some situation where she may need to make a call based on my documented wishes.

Have difficult conversations now to avoid chaos later. After their initial grief, your family members will be thankful that you saved them the additional burden of trying to read your mind. As a final practical matter, after you’ve created your health care advance directives — it’s important to photocopy the form and give it to your health care proxy and also to people who may be present during an emergency, like your family, close friends, trusted health care providers or faith leaders.

Varun Verma is an internal medicine physician and co-founder, Andwise. He can be reached at his website, Varun Verma, M.D. and on X @varunvermamd. He writes about his own experiences as a physician on the Andwise blog and also hosts the Andwise podcast, where he talks to physicians about their financial journeys and careers in medicine.

Image credit: Shutterstock.com

Prev

A patient's experience of chemotherapy and radiation

November 6, 2018 Kevin 2
…
Next

We are in danger of hospitals no longer being safe havens

November 7, 2018 Kevin 5
…

Tagged as: Palliative Care

Post navigation

< Previous Post
A patient's experience of chemotherapy and radiation
Next Post >
We are in danger of hospitals no longer being safe havens

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

More by Varun Verma, MD

  • The uncertain future of general physicians: Is it time to pivot?

    Varun Verma, MD
  • The truth about health care startups: financial sacrifices and emotional toll

    Varun Verma, MD
  • Residency reshaped: the courageous journey of switching specialties

    Varun Verma, MD

Related Posts

  • She sees difficult patients, but is a difficult patient herself

    Kristin Puhl, MD
  • Primary care faces a very difficult winter

    Ken Terry
  • 10 tips for delivering difficult pediatric diagnoses

    Laura Spiegel
  • It shouldn’t be this difficult to find shoes for kids with disabilities

    Cassi Young
  • When it becomes time to embrace fear and loss and let the chaos lead to growth

    Claire Brown
  • How to avoid treatment you don’t need

    Marshall Allen

More in Physician

  • The broken health care system doesn’t have to break you

    Jessie Mahoney, MD
  • How a $75 million jet brought down America’s boldest doctor

    Arthur Lazarus, MD, MBA
  • The dreaded question: Do you have boys or girls?

    Pamela Adelstein, MD
  • When rock bottom is a turning point: Why the turmoil at HHS may be a blessing in disguise

    Muhamad Aly Rifai, MD
  • How grief transformed a psychiatrist’s approach to patient care

    Devina Maya Wadhwa, MD
  • Fear of other people’s opinions nearly killed me. Here’s what freed me.

    Jillian Rigert, MD, DMD
  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • What’s driving medical students away from primary care?

      ​​Vineeth Amba, MPH, Archita Goyal, and Wayne Altman, MD | Education
    • Make cognitive testing as routine as a blood pressure check

      Joshua Baker and James Jackson, PsyD | Conditions
    • The hidden cost of delaying back surgery

      Gbolahan Okubadejo, MD | Conditions
    • The dreaded question: Do you have boys or girls?

      Pamela Adelstein, MD | Physician
    • Rethinking patient payments: Why billing is the new frontline of patient care [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The broken health care system doesn’t have to break you

      Jessie Mahoney, MD | Physician
  • Past 6 Months

    • What’s driving medical students away from primary care?

      ​​Vineeth Amba, MPH, Archita Goyal, and Wayne Altman, MD | Education
    • The silent crisis hurting pain patients and their doctors

      Kayvan Haddadan, MD | Physician
    • What happened to real care in health care?

      Christopher H. Foster, PhD, MPA | Policy
    • Internal Medicine 2025: inspiration at the annual meeting

      American College of Physicians | Physician
    • The hidden bias in how we treat chronic pain

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Meds
    • Residency as rehearsal: the new pediatric hospitalist fellowship requirement scam

      Anonymous | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Alzheimer’s and the family: Opening the conversation with children [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • AI in mental health: a new frontier for therapy and support

      Tim Rubin, PsyD | Conditions
    • What prostate cancer taught this physician about being a patient

      Francisco M. Torres, MD | Conditions
    • Why fearing AI is really about fearing ourselves

      Bhargav Raman, MD, MBA | Tech
    • The broken health care system doesn’t have to break you

      Jessie Mahoney, MD | Physician
    • Why great patient outcomes don’t protect female doctors from burnout [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast

Subscribe to KevinMD and never miss a story!

Get free updates delivered free to your inbox.


Find jobs at
Careers by KevinMD.com

Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now.

Learn more

View 2 Comments >

Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and patients share their insight and tell their stories.

Social

  • Like on Facebook
  • Follow on Twitter
  • Connect on Linkedin
  • Subscribe on Youtube
  • Instagram

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • What’s driving medical students away from primary care?

      ​​Vineeth Amba, MPH, Archita Goyal, and Wayne Altman, MD | Education
    • Make cognitive testing as routine as a blood pressure check

      Joshua Baker and James Jackson, PsyD | Conditions
    • The hidden cost of delaying back surgery

      Gbolahan Okubadejo, MD | Conditions
    • The dreaded question: Do you have boys or girls?

      Pamela Adelstein, MD | Physician
    • Rethinking patient payments: Why billing is the new frontline of patient care [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The broken health care system doesn’t have to break you

      Jessie Mahoney, MD | Physician
  • Past 6 Months

    • What’s driving medical students away from primary care?

      ​​Vineeth Amba, MPH, Archita Goyal, and Wayne Altman, MD | Education
    • The silent crisis hurting pain patients and their doctors

      Kayvan Haddadan, MD | Physician
    • What happened to real care in health care?

      Christopher H. Foster, PhD, MPA | Policy
    • Internal Medicine 2025: inspiration at the annual meeting

      American College of Physicians | Physician
    • The hidden bias in how we treat chronic pain

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Meds
    • Residency as rehearsal: the new pediatric hospitalist fellowship requirement scam

      Anonymous | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • Alzheimer’s and the family: Opening the conversation with children [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • AI in mental health: a new frontier for therapy and support

      Tim Rubin, PsyD | Conditions
    • What prostate cancer taught this physician about being a patient

      Francisco M. Torres, MD | Conditions
    • Why fearing AI is really about fearing ourselves

      Bhargav Raman, MD, MBA | Tech
    • The broken health care system doesn’t have to break you

      Jessie Mahoney, MD | Physician
    • Why great patient outcomes don’t protect female doctors from burnout [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast

MedPage Today Professional

An Everyday Health Property Medpage Today
  • Terms of Use | Disclaimer
  • Privacy Policy
  • DMCA Policy
All Content © KevinMD, LLC
Site by Outthink Group

Have difficult conversations now to avoid chaos later
2 comments

Comments are moderated before they are published. Please read the comment policy.

Loading Comments...