Skip to content
  • About
  • Contact
  • Contribute
  • What Physicians Say
  • My Book
  • Careers
  • Podcast
  • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
KevinMD.com — Social media's leading physician voice
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • What Physicians Say
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Speaking
  • About Kevin Pho, MD, Founder of KevinMD
  • Aging and dementia: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Artificial intelligence: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Be heard on social media’s leading physician voice
  • Cancer: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Children’s health: what pediatricians say, in their own words
  • Contact Kevin
  • COVID-19: what physicians wrote as it happened
  • Custom enhanced author page pricing
  • Diabetes and obesity: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Direct primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • DMCA Policy
  • End of life: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Establishing, Managing, and Protecting Your Online Reputation: A Social Media Guide for Physicians and Medical Practices
  • GLP-1 drugs: what physicians say about Ozempic and its successors, in their own words
  • Heart disease: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Immigration and medicine: what physicians say about immigrant doctors and immigrant patients, in their own words
  • KevinMD influencer opportunities
  • Medical errors: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical ethics: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical malpractice: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Medical school: what students and physicians say, in their own words
  • Mental health: what psychiatrists and physicians say, in their own words
  • Nursing: what nurses and physicians say, in their own words
  • Opinion and commentary by KevinMD
  • Opioids: what physicians and pain patients say, in their own words
  • Physician burnout speakers to keynote your conference
  • Physician burnout: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physician Coaching by KevinMD
  • Physician keynote speaker: Kevin Pho, MD
  • Physician personal finance: what physicians say about their own money, in their own words
  • Physician Speaking by KevinMD: a boutique speakers bureau
  • Physician suicide: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Physicians and administrators: what physicians say about who runs medicine, in their own words
  • Primary care physician in Nashua, NH | Kevin Pho, MD
  • Primary care: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Prior authorization: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Privacy Policy
  • Private equity and corporate medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Race and medicine: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Recommended services by KevinMD
  • Residency: what residents and attendings say, in their own words
  • Scope of practice: what physicians, nurse practitioners, and PAs say, in their own words
  • Subscribe to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • Subscribe to the newsletter
  • Surgeons and surgery: what surgeons say, in their own words
  • Take-home messages: what physicians say when asked to leave one
  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Thank you for subscribing to KevinMD
  • Thank you for upgrading to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • The electronic health record: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Vaccines: what physicians say, in their own words
  • Violence against health care workers: what physicians and nurses say, in their own words
  • What physicians say: the KevinMD records
  • Women in medicine: what women physicians say, in their own words
  • Women’s health: what physicians say, in their own words

A touching tale of hope and uncertainty in the hospital

Elizabeth Rodriguez
Medical Education
June 26, 2023
Share
Tweet
Share

Indeterminate. That’s the word we use when we’re unsure whether a patient will be able to survive without mechanical ventilation. We can’t say for certain that they have a good prognosis, but we can’t say they have a bad one either. A chaplain once said that those teetering between life and death can sense two things: sounds and smells. They also shared a story about a patient who woke up from a comatose state and recognized the chaplain’s voice. This was shocking to her because she had never met him while he was awake. The only time she spoke to him prior to this was while he was unconscious. It was the first time she had encountered something like this.

This story has been playing repeatedly in my mind this past week as I began my neurology inpatient service as a 3rd-year medical student. Every day on this service, I’ve seen a man who has been comatose since I arrived. Unfortunately, he experienced a cardiac arrest for roughly 15 minutes, which meant no oxygen reached his brain during that period. Since then, he has been unresponsive, intubated, poked, and prodded. Team after team has come to check on him and determine a prognosis. Indeterminate. That is still all we can say after 9 days in the hospital. I arrived on day four and watched as residents, attendings, nurses, and students continued to poke and prod. Our team was tasked with figuring out what he could respond to, and part of this included pinching his skin to see if he responded to pain. The first time I saw this, I flinched. He lay there, unable to say anything, and no one told him this was happening. They just did it. Could he hear us talking about him? Could he sense the pain but not move his body to respond? What does he know? If the chaplain was right, he could hear us talking about his prognosis. Indeterminate.

On day 8, he lay still, barely moving his mouth around the tubing that connects to his airway. This time, his wife was with him. The team knocked, opened the curtain to his room, and I saw her praying at the patient’s bedside. She had a rosary on the bed near his head. She lifted her head and looked at us. I could see the worry and fatigue on her face. We updated her on his prognosis. Indeterminate.

Then, we let her know we would do a short physical exam on him momentarily. The chief resident looked at me and my classmate to ask if we wanted to conduct the physical exam ourselves. I immediately said yes because I wanted to learn and practice. But as I put on gloves, I looked over at the patient’s wife. “Oh no,” I thought. She had to watch us pinch him, force him to gag, lift his eyelids up, and try to get him to respond to pain. No one said anything to her, but we began anyway.

I asked the patient, “Señor, ¿puedes oírme? (Sir, can you hear me?)” I repeated. Still nothing. Indeterminate. Next, I raised his eyelids to visualize his pupils. I used my penlight and checked his pupillary responses. Intact. Next, we put saline droplets in his eyes and checked his corneal response, intact in one eye. Next, the gag reflex. I turned the valve so I could put the tube down his throat. It went further, further, and further down his throat until I couldn’t push it anymore. I brought it out as I suctioned, and he coughed.

Then, the part I dreaded. I had to intentionally hurt him. Still, no one said anything to the family member. I looked up to let her know what was about to happen so she would be aware of what this test was for and could feel involved in the visit. Then, I squeezed the skin on his shoulders at the base of his neck. He didn’t withdraw from the pain. But did he feel it? Next was to squeeze and pinch the skin on his upper extremities. No response, but did he feel it? As we moved to the lower extremities, I worried if I was hurting him. Sometimes people leave bruises on patients when they do these types of exams. I didn’t want that, so I squeezed his leg over his gown. Still no withdrawal to the pain. Our attending and resident said to pinch harder to see if we could get a response. Another resident said to twist as we pinched. Finally, we got a withdrawal response to pain on both extremities at that point. It was over. That was it.

Still indeterminate. But could he feel it? Could he hear us talking about inflicting pain on him? The team started to walk toward the family member to discuss what this exam meant. I took off my gloves and went to the head of the bed where the patient lay. “Gracias, señor, por su paciencia con todo y lo siento por el dolor. (Thank you, sir, for your patience with everything, and I’m sorry for the pain.)” I told him as I placed my hand on his shoulder. No one else said anything to him. Was I crazy? Would he even hear me? Would it even matter? I’d like to think it would. I’d like to think he did hear me. I’d like to think that others would speak to him too. He’s not my family member, but he is a human being. Regardless of the word “indeterminate,” this still holds true. If he did hear, I hope it brought him peace to know that someone is still thinking of him as a person and involving him in this process. Because at the end of the day, he was the center of it all in that moment. Because at the end of the day, our patients are at the center of all medicine.

Elizabeth Rodriguez is a medical student.

Prev

From darkness to healing: a urologist's journey through suicidal ideation [PODCAST]

June 25, 2023 Kevin 0
…
Next

More than skin deep: the importance of culturally competent care in medical education

June 26, 2023 Kevin 0
…

Tagged as: Neurology

< Previous Post
From darkness to healing: a urologist's journey through suicidal ideation [PODCAST]
Next Post >
More than skin deep: the importance of culturally competent care in medical education

 

ADVERTISEMENT

Related Posts

  • Don’t judge when trainees use dating apps in the hospital

    Austin Perlmutter, MD
  • In the face of uncertainty, choose hope over fear

    Shreya Kumar
  • Hospital administrators thinking about no-cost treatment which really helps patients

    John Corsino, DPT
  • What do hospital discounts really mean?

    Robert S. Berry, MD
  • Redefining what a hospital library should be

    Abeer Arain, MD, MPH
  • It’s time to stop being skeptical of hospital chaplains

    Ilaria Simeone

More in Medical Education

  • What clinical support staff notice that charts never show

    Maria Alemu
  • Learning empathy in medical school took my father’s cancer

    Sneha Dabadi
  • Monetize clinical expertise without becoming an influencer

    Justin Allan Montgomery, MSN-FNP
  • Medical infographics now look right without being right

    Shaan R. Mody
  • Clinical uncertainty is missing from medical training

    Lohithasree Bode
  • Why nearly every pre-med now takes a gap year

    Claudia Rodriguez
  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • 3 reforms to counter wellness influencers in practice

      Farid Sabet-Sharghi, MD | Physician
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • 3 reforms to counter wellness influencers in practice

      Farid Sabet-Sharghi, MD | Physician
    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology

Subscribe to KevinMD and never miss a story!

Get free updates delivered free to your inbox.


Find jobs at
Careers by KevinMD.com

Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now.

Learn more

Leave a Comment

Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and patients share their insight and tell their stories.

Social

  • Like on Facebook
  • Follow on Twitter
  • Connect on Linkedin
  • Subscribe on Youtube
  • Instagram

ADVERTISEMENT

  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • The conflict of interest that discloses as nothing

      Martha Rosenberg | Medications
    • Surgical judgment: the skill no one sees from the gallery

      Mustafa Kemal Çalık, MD | Physician
    • Why haven’t ambient AI scribes boosted productivity?

      Karan Kanwar | Health Technology
    • 3 reforms to counter wellness influencers in practice

      Farid Sabet-Sharghi, MD | Physician
    • Physician well-being is not an individual problem

      Heather Buckley | Conditions and Diseases
  • Past 6 Months

    • Why CDC opioid guidelines get the overdose data wrong

      Richard A. Lawhern, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Retirement isn’t the end of medicine, it’s a second act [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • Sensory processing in autism and the brain’s volume control

      Josette Pelatan, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What maternity care deserts cost a town

      Manisha Kaliaperumal | Health Policy
    • Why medicine needs a national physician license now

      Vaishali Popat, MD, MPH | Physician
    • A cold cost $945. The cost of primary care is broken.

      Susan Newman, MD | Physician
  • Recent Posts

    • 3 reforms to counter wellness influencers in practice

      Farid Sabet-Sharghi, MD | Physician
    • Shift work and circadian rhythms shape the 24/7 workplace

      Deepak Gupta, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Paid for twice

      Physicians paid for G2211 twice. Most never bill it.

      Michael Duben, MD | Physician Finance
    • The next child

      Medicaid managed care and the case for mutual stewardship

      Steven Merahn, MD | Health Policy
    • Choosing a limb lengthening surgeon requires accountability

      Hrayr Basmajian, MD | Physician
    • Cited but never checked

      Why AI crisis advice may fail families facing psychosis

      Nicole Drapeau Gillen | Health Technology

Copyright © 2026 KevinMD.com | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme

  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Privacy Policy
  • DMCA Policy
All Content © KevinMD, LLC
Site by Outthink Group

Leave a Comment

Comments are moderated before they are published. Please read the comment policy.

Loading Comments...