Skip to content
  • About
  • Contact
  • Contribute
  • My Book
  • Careers
  • Podcast
  • Transcripts
  • Speaking
KevinMD
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Transcripts
    • Speaking
KevinMD
  • All
  • Physician
  • Burnout
  • Practice
  • Policy
  • Finance
  • Conditions
  • .edu
  • Patient
  • Meds
  • Tech
  • Social
    • All
    • Physician
    • Burnout
    • Practice
    • Policy
    • Finance
    • Conditions
    • .edu
    • Patient
    • Meds
    • Tech
    • Social
    • About
    • Contact
    • Contribute
    • My Book
    • Careers
    • Podcast
    • Transcripts
    • Speaking
  • About Kevin Pho, MD, Founder of KevinMD
  • Be heard on social media’s leading physician voice
  • Contact Kevin
  • Custom enhanced author page pricing
  • DMCA Policy
  • Establishing, Managing, and Protecting Your Online Reputation: A Social Media Guide for Physicians and Medical Practices
  • KevinMD influencer opportunities
  • Opinion and commentary by KevinMD
  • Physician burnout speakers to keynote your conference
  • Physician Coaching by KevinMD
  • Physician keynote speaker: Kevin Pho, MD
  • Physician Speaking by KevinMD: a boutique speakers bureau
  • Primary care physician in Nashua, NH | Kevin Pho, MD
  • Privacy Policy
  • Recommended services by KevinMD
  • Subscribe to the newsletter
  • Terms of Use Agreement
  • Thank you for subscribing to KevinMD
  • Thank you for upgrading to the KevinMD enhanced author page
  • Upgrade to the KevinMD enhanced author page

We must demand a return to meaningful notes

Robert Centor, MD
Physician
August 30, 2013
Share
Tweet
Share

I had a nice conversation with a dermatologist at a party recently.  He started complaining about the notes he receives from other physicians.  He used terms like piles and piles of junk.

Talk to any experienced physician and they will tell you that once upon a time our teachers taught us to write notes appropriate to the situation, not appropriate to the billing system.

Several years ago I ranted about the necessity for coding experts.  What does that have to do with good medical care?

In 1973 we were taught to write SOAP notes.  SOAP notes served me and my patients well throughout my internship, resident, and early years in outpatient practice.  What happened?  With the introduction of resource-based relative value scale (RBRVS), bureaucrats had the opportunity to make rules about what constituted a level 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 note.

Thomas Sowell stated succinctly, “You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.”

The bureaucrats came up with a plan for documentation that shows a total lack of understanding of medicine.

Electronic medical records have made this worse.  Now we have institutionalized bad notes.  And bad notes harm patient care.

Physicians now spend too much sorting through the haystack of notes that document unnecessary 12 point review of systems, and repeated complete physical exams when they are totally unnecessary.  We see note after note repeating all the laboratory data.

The problem here is that the physician note writer is not involved in figuring out what data are important.  Our current notes are mindless.  They do not reflect our thought processes.

When we were taught about SOAP notes, they went like this:

  1. Write a separate SOAP note for each problem – either a diagnosis or a complaint
  2. For each problem include first the subjective data related to that problem
  3. Then the objective data – physical exam, relevant lab data and imaging
  4. Then your analysis – this section reflects your current thought process
  5. Finally the current plan – lab tests, medications, surgical consult, etc.

We need to know what our colleagues are thinking.  We need to review our students and residents thought processes.  Notes written like this require thinking, thinking about what are the relevant data and how one evaluates the data.

I believe that such notes help us think more clearly about our patients.  They clearly make it easier for other physicians to review our notes and thought processes.

We must demand a return to meaningful notes.  We must let everyone know our outrage over cut and paste notes, data overload notes, and non-thinking notes.  Our patients deserve understandable notes.  Unfortunately, today we have horrible notes, and we are not teaching our students and residents to think, partly because of the notes they must write for billing purposes only.

Robert Centor is an internal medicine physician who blogs at DB’s Medical Rants.

Prev

Dear patients: My skill set no longer matches your needs

August 29, 2013 Kevin 206
…
Next

After an adverse event: What should doctors disclose to patients?

August 30, 2013 Kevin 4
…

Tagged as: Health IT and AI in Medicine, Primary Care, Residency and Medical Training, Specialty Care

< Previous Post
Dear patients: My skill set no longer matches your needs
Next Post >
After an adverse event: What should doctors disclose to patients?

ADVERTISEMENT

More by Robert Centor, MD

  • When the problem representation and the illness script do not match

    Robert Centor, MD
  • Think of diagnostic excellence as playing smooth jazz

    Robert Centor, MD
  • When constipation pain was worse than cancer pain

    Robert Centor, MD

More in Physician

  • Why resident mistreatment puts patient care at risk

    Anonymous
  • Wealth inequality is a clinical problem, not political

    Sameen Farooq, MD
  • Professional identity in medicine has been hollowed out

    Ronald L. Lindsay, MD
  • Why is women’s mental health in psychiatry so overlooked?

    Jincy Rajan, MD
  • Why I say no during a cosmetic surgery consultation

    Richard V. Balikian, MD
  • The generalist physician hiding in every specialist

    Farid Sabet-Sharghi, MD
  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • When men falling behind unravels families and futures

      Osmund Agbo, MD | Physician
    • Generalist physicians and AI are a comparative advantage

      Jeremy Fish, MD | Health Technology
    • 1 in 12 medical billing companies just vanished

      GetPracticeHelp | Physician Finance
    • The health care workforce crisis we keep ignoring

      Narinder Singh Parhar, MD | Health Policy
    • Why a malpractice lawsuit follows you after you win

      Tim Brocklehurst, MBA | Conditions and Diseases
    • Patients are turning to AI because doctors lack time

      Arthur Lazarus, MD, MBA | Health Technology
  • Past 6 Months

    • The MCAT requirement persists as a norm, not as a tool

      Aniruth Ananthanarayanan | Medical Education
    • Polycystic ovary syndrome is more than ovarian

      Oluyemisi Famuyiwa, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • DEA fear is reshaping how doctors prescribe

      Ronald L. Lindsay, MD | Physician
    • Metrics got you into medicine and are making you unhappy in it [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • 3 fixes for primary care access in the ChatGPT era

      Payam Zamani, MD | Health Technology
    • The residency personal statement is an identity problem

      Kathleen Muldoon, PhD | Medical Education
  • Recent Posts

    • The emotional weight of choosing food allergy treatment

      Amanda Whitehouse, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • How to use patient wearable data in cardiology visits

      Tarpan Patel | Health Technology
    • How AI is reshaping applied behavior analysis care

      Brad Smith, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What the polycystic ovary syndrome name change means

      Sathya Narayanan, PharmD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Loneliness in successful men hides behind abundance

      J.H. Lynn | Conditions and Diseases
    • Dark money is writing your health care laws [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast

Subscribe to KevinMD and never miss a story!

Get free updates delivered free to your inbox.


Find jobs at
Careers by KevinMD.com

Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now.

Learn more

View 11 Comments >

Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and patients share their insight and tell their stories.

Social

  • Like on Facebook
  • Follow on Twitter
  • Connect on Linkedin
  • Subscribe on Youtube
  • Instagram

ADVERTISEMENT

  • Most Popular

  • Past Week

    • When men falling behind unravels families and futures

      Osmund Agbo, MD | Physician
    • Generalist physicians and AI are a comparative advantage

      Jeremy Fish, MD | Health Technology
    • 1 in 12 medical billing companies just vanished

      GetPracticeHelp | Physician Finance
    • The health care workforce crisis we keep ignoring

      Narinder Singh Parhar, MD | Health Policy
    • Why a malpractice lawsuit follows you after you win

      Tim Brocklehurst, MBA | Conditions and Diseases
    • Patients are turning to AI because doctors lack time

      Arthur Lazarus, MD, MBA | Health Technology
  • Past 6 Months

    • The MCAT requirement persists as a norm, not as a tool

      Aniruth Ananthanarayanan | Medical Education
    • Polycystic ovary syndrome is more than ovarian

      Oluyemisi Famuyiwa, MD | Conditions and Diseases
    • DEA fear is reshaping how doctors prescribe

      Ronald L. Lindsay, MD | Physician
    • Metrics got you into medicine and are making you unhappy in it [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast
    • 3 fixes for primary care access in the ChatGPT era

      Payam Zamani, MD | Health Technology
    • The residency personal statement is an identity problem

      Kathleen Muldoon, PhD | Medical Education
  • Recent Posts

    • The emotional weight of choosing food allergy treatment

      Amanda Whitehouse, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • How to use patient wearable data in cardiology visits

      Tarpan Patel | Health Technology
    • How AI is reshaping applied behavior analysis care

      Brad Smith, PhD | Conditions and Diseases
    • What the polycystic ovary syndrome name change means

      Sathya Narayanan, PharmD | Conditions and Diseases
    • Loneliness in successful men hides behind abundance

      J.H. Lynn | Conditions and Diseases
    • Dark money is writing your health care laws [PODCAST]

      The Podcast by KevinMD | Podcast

MedPage Today Professional

An Everyday Health Property Medpage Today

Copyright © 2026 KevinMD.com | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme

  • Terms of Use | Disclaimer
  • Privacy Policy
  • DMCA Policy
All Content © KevinMD, LLC
Site by Outthink Group

We must demand a return to meaningful notes
11 comments

Comments are moderated before they are published. Please read the comment policy.

Loading Comments...