Can doctors have personalities? [PODCAST]

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“When I teach medical students who rotate with me at my clinic, I ask them to write about the single most negative and single most positive emotional experiences they have had in their 3 to 4 years of training thus far. Commonly, I see fear as a negative emotion and pride in self-worth as the positive. When we break it down, their fear often stems from not knowing if they did a good enough job working up a tough case. The students talk about facts, etiologies, treatment plans, and what could have been done better clinically. Interestingly, their positive emotion of self-worth is often described as the patient thanking them or even hugging them after they shared stories and bonded that they both like wake surfing, went to the same Metallica concert, exchanged jokes or photos of their same breed of dog or that the patient reminded them of their grandparent and they just sat and talked about their families. After describing the case, students usually do not mention disease, workup, or treatment with me this time. In fact, very little medical terminology is used when I ask why this experience was so positive, and the words I do hear are usually centered on how they felt bonded with the patient after learning something they have in common. What beauty lies in this space when doctor and patient connect.”

Erika Visser Aragona is a family physician.

She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, “Can doctors have personalities?”

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Hosted by Kevin Pho, MD, The Podcast by KevinMD shares the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from.

Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show, where we share the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from. My name is Kevin Pho, founder and editor of KevinMD. Today we welcome back on the show Erika Visser Aragona. She is a family physician, and she wrote the KevinMD article “Can doctors have personalities?” Erika, welcome back to the show.

Erika Visser Aragona: Thanks. I’m super excited to be here again. So nice to see you.

Kevin Pho: So we’ll get into the article a little bit, but for those who didn’t get a chance to listen to our first episode, can you just briefly share your story and journey to where you are today?

Erika Visser Aragona: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a dual board-certified osteopathic and allopathic family medicine doctor, and I also teach at Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine, so I provide lectures and I teach clinical skills to future doctors. My practice is a younger demographic, so doing that plus teaching younger students really helped me dive into the realm of how we stay engaged and really reach a younger population, especially with COVID too, and transitioning into telemedicine platforms way more than I traditionally did in the past.

So what’s been nice is reaching out to patients with local news media and having a voice that way. So I’m now seeing myself transition into a lot more social media. I mean, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, most recently TikTok, and I laughed about that, because I never thought I would be there, but it’s working. So currently I’m even developing my own website. It’s DrDrErika.com, and really what the platform is, is to showcase that we can have cheerfulness in medicine. What I want to do is highlight and blog about my experiences as a doctor, but also feature and highlight all the other physicians that are doing so much good on social media and bringing enthusiasm and relatability to the medical world. So that’s kind of where I’m at right now.

Kevin Pho: So tell me what it’s like being a physician on social media, because it’s certainly evolved during all the years that I’ve been at the intersection between social media and medicine. And especially, as you said, during COVID, everything is so polarized right now. There’s a lot of misinformation and disinformation that is out on social media. So speaking from your standpoint as a physician, what is it like out there now?

Erika Visser Aragona: It’s a brand-new world for all of us, and it’s tough, because we’re so scientifically and clinically trained. So I think what we’re trying to do is branch out in a positive way, but there’s a difficulty there in where physicians really fit in that social model, you know? So I think as a doctor, what we’re trying to do as a whole is expand the positives and also dispel the negatives of misinformation. So instead of just putting yourself out there and speaking medical truths, we’re now seeing that we have to do that in a relatable, engaging, fun way, which is not necessarily something that we do in all of our medical writing.

So what we’re seeing now are a lot of physicians who are more vocal, but in creative narratives, and it’s setting the tone that doctors can do so much more than be serious. In fact, I think that’s the double-edged sword that we get into so much: It kind of takes away our credibility from certain people watching it and saying, “Well, you can’t be funny and sarcastic and have humor if you’re going to be a serious scientist.” Yeah, you can. In fact, we’ve seen so many doctors do this and do it well, where they don’t lose a sense of their clinical know-how or their expertise whatsoever. They maintain professionalism, but they convey a point to a broader audience. That’s what I think is so important, and what we’re trying to convey here is that you can absolutely do both, and you can blend it really well to help the general public, even more so than traditional medicine in the past.

Kevin Pho: And you certainly talk more about that in your KevinMD article, “Can doctors have personalities?” Now, for those who didn’t get a chance to read that article, can you just walk my audience through it and share the story of why you decided to write it?

Erika Visser Aragona: Yeah, I think there are two main points that I wanted to convey when I wrote that. One, I want to reverse the stereotype that doctors can’t be human or have lives outside of work, or that if we do, we’re unprofessional. You know, society has been conditioned to expect physicians to be normalized in a way of unrealistic expectations, seriousness, medical studies, and that’s it. But what if we celebrated us as being people too, and celebrated the same milestones for physicians that we do for everyone else? What if we educated the public to change that narrative and show them that your personality actually makes you a better physician? You relate more to your patients.

So I wrote that to change the perspective and show the voices of both social media and kind of our personalities, and highlight them, and help physicians be brave and bold, and future physicians never lose their personalities from the beginning. Focus on their rigorous studies, never lose sight that we’re scientists and physicians first. We know that. But why can’t we show that trust to our patients and get along in a way that relates to them even better?

So when I was writing that, I thought there were a couple of really interesting articles, and I’d love to share them. So there’s a 2019 University of Oxford business school journal article that came out, and they found that productivity increased by 13 percent in happy workers. Now, this was the work environment, right? So we’re not talking happiness based on your personal lives or what you brought to the table. But I also thought it was interesting that Forbes in 2018 quoted a finding from Warwick University where they said companies like Google, for example, who invested more in employee support and employee happiness, their satisfaction was there. There has to be a way that that translates to medicine as well, right? It’s the same concept.

But instead of just bringing happiness to the work environment, which I think is very fundamental and crucial, and we need to talk about how we can help that with administration, but that’s a different article for another time, what I want to talk about now is the happiness level. What does that mean? Happy doctors, what does that translate into, right? So there was a research and organizational behavioral journal published in 2010. It’s a longer, an older study, but it’s by Brent Rosso et al. on the meaning of work, and what they talked about was a theoretical integration and review to find meaning in one’s work. And what does that mean? It increased motivation, engagement, individual performance, and personal fulfillment, and decreased stress. So now we’re not just happy, we’re more successful.

And if we extrapolate this, physicians are happier at work, we find more meaning in work. We already have a life purpose; we love serving our patients. But now we’re forming these real relationships, and I believe that when physicians are more satisfied, more fulfilled, and more productive, it will then directly translate into patient care.

Kevin Pho: Now give us some examples, stories, case studies, either from yourself or from your colleagues, about how physicians are specifically showing their personalities online and on social media.

Erika Visser Aragona: Oh, wow. So I’ve got a long list of doctors that I admire, and you know, I broke it down into four different categories, and there are more. But first of all, you look at large, grand-scale news media, so national news. We’ve got Dr. Jenny Caudle, we’ve got Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Tanya Altmann, Dr. Alanna Levine. The last two I’ve actually spoken with personally, and what I love about them is you can sense their passion for providing the most up-to-date, current medical information across the grand scale. So they’re giving patients who maybe don’t have access to direct care, or maybe have found misinformation online, a face, a doctor, a vocal representation of what’s out there. And I think that’s pivotal in today’s society, where anybody can put anything out there. You want to make sure that it’s accurate. So I have a huge respect for what they’re doing.

But then you look at other types of doctors too. So speaking of television, we’ve got doctors like Dr. Pimple Popper, right? Dr. Kat from Dr. 90210, Dr. Tiffany Moon from The Real Housewives of Dallas. What I love about these doctors is they’re bringing something new to the scene. They’re showcasing that they’re extremely successful in their specialties, but they have a personality. They’re bringing the fun to life and showing that to a general audience.

What I think is interesting is that Dr. Moon has said something that really resonated with me. She contemplated being on TV in the first place, because she said she worked her entire life to be where she was right now, and she didn’t want to be invalidated because she was on television. But then she said, “I thought it would be a really good platform to showcase a real-life working mom, and to use it to share my story and educate and inspire young women.” How beautiful is that, to be vulnerable and expose yourself, but to do it for a greater good, where you’re so admirable because you’re bringing this new light to medicine?

And then we’ve got the social media platform leaders, like Dr. Sein Agory. I love what she’s doing. She’s on Femme Health, and I’ve gotten to write for them, which is great. It’s a platform talking about feminine health needs. It’s articles by physicians, podcasts by physicians, but it’s accessible to anybody. Just click on the website. It’s free, it’s accessible, it’s grand scale, and it’s clinically based, medically relevant information. So again, you’re getting information that’s accurate, but it’s written in a way that the general public can understand. And I think that’s a huge area where we can gravitate toward and physicians can expand upon. We need to write more and get our voices out to really help reach people who might not be coming into the clinic, or maybe are leaving and have more questions, or are reading information online and searches that aren’t accurate.

Dr. Hala Sabry is another one. She created National Women’s Physicians Day. She created the Physician Moms Group on Facebook, which was one of the most successful Facebook groups, so she even got hired by Facebook. I mean, that’s how awesome this doctor is. And now she works with multiple organizations, including Doctorpedia. It’s another platform online that gives doctors voices, so they can talk about medical topics and show their credentials and their board certification, and patients can click through very quick videos to find the information that they need. It keeps their attention, it’s captivating, it’s personalized, but you know you’re getting information that’s accurate. I think that’s incredible.

And then I really want to talk about social media influencers, because I think that they are like the new up-and-coming doctors who are bridging that gap between sarcasm and seriousness so beautifully. So we’ve got Mama Doctor Jones on YouTube, and then there’s Dr. Austin. He’s a gastroenterologist, and he’s on TikTok. And then Dr. Vicky Chan; she’s on Instagram and TikTok. And most people have probably heard of Dr. Mike. If you think of social influencers, he’s one of the most prevalent names that comes up.

What I think they’re doing that is so important and prudent to the social media platform is that they are showing that doctors can have fun and also still be so technically and scientifically relevant and be trusted to provide you with accurate medical advice. Dr. Mike also said the lack of quality physicians on social media is really dangerous, because it’s led to the rise of social influencers peddling miraculous cures. And he said, you know, doctors for a while didn’t want to be on social media, because they were afraid to be perceived as unprofessional, and as a result, misinformation was thriving. He couldn’t have been more accurate.

And I love what all of these doctors are doing, and most of them are on multiple platforms, so not just YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram, but branching out across the globe on different spectrums, where patients can find their information and have fun. They’re relevant, and they’re trustworthy. So they’re giving good advice, but they’re reaching maybe a younger population that doesn’t go to doctors yet, or maybe dispelling medical misinformation and replacing it with truth. And what they’re doing is they’re now putting that in the hands of everybody watching.

I think that’s incredible, because it’s a negative way, and you didn’t know what I was going to say. It’s Kevin. So anybody watching, you have no idea I was going to say this either. He doesn’t know. But there’s you, Kevin, and I think what you’re doing is incredible and it’s pivotal, and it needs to be celebrated, because it’s a movement. What you’re doing is you’re creating a voice for health care. Not a lot of people have done that, and you’re allowing us to share our experiences for the greater good. And what we’re able to do is make connections directly because of you. I met Dr. Tyeese Gaines on your podcast and connected with her. She’s a social media coach, but there’s so much more than that.

You are dispelling misinformation, you are providing accurate information, and you are allowing our faces to be seen and our voices to be heard. So there’s so much to gain from this, and I honestly want to thank you for that, because this is a movement that can’t stop. If the information is going to be out there, we need to make sure that it’s correct, so it does way more good than harm.

Kevin Pho: Well, thank you so much, Erika. I really appreciate that, and I completely agree with everything that you say, which is that if we physicians aren’t online and dispelling that information, there are going to be others who will take that place, social media influencers, and peddle information that isn’t necessarily accurate.

Now, one of the areas of pushback I sometimes get is that the more physicians show their personality online, the more vulnerable they appear online. They’re going to open themselves up to more criticism and pushback, and that just goes with the territory. Now, what kind of advice can you give to physicians who may experience some pushback the more they show their personalities online?

Erika Visser Aragona: Yeah, do it anyway. Absolutely do it anyway. I had to get a tougher skin. I’ll be honest: I got a lot of comments I wasn’t anticipating when I started, and a lot of them are mean, and they might not be rooted in truth, but they’re out there. And what we need to say is, “Well, everyone has an opinion, but we still have a responsibility to provide accurate information and help the public.” I mean, that’s our role.

And another thing to think about is that we are helping patients more the more personable and social and engaged we are. In fact, there was a 2019 Duke Center for Personalized Health article that featured the importance of physician-patient relationships and communication, trust in health care. They started with a quote from Paul et al. from 1981, and this is what it said. I love it: “Medicine is an art whose magic and creative ability has long been recognized as residing in the interpersonal aspects of patient-physician relationships.”

Notice they didn’t talk about science, other than the word medicine and physician. What do they say? Art, magic, creative ability, interpersonal relationships. So effective patient-physician communication, they found in this writing, was positively influencing health outcomes. This is something that is key. So we’re increasing patient satisfaction, which then led to increased compliance and better health outcomes. These are proven facts. When patients are happy and they’re listening and you’re engaged, they’re more likely to remember what you said, take that advice home, and follow the instructions.

So absolutely, if we are engaged and happy and personable and bring that to the table, where the patient then trusts us and we develop that rapport, we’re serving the greater good. So it’s not just that we’re goofy and dancing and having fun; we’re building those long-term relationships that make a difference. So you know, health care is becoming more specialized and patient-centered. We know that, and the patient-physician relationship is significantly shaping those health outcomes. So evidence-based medicine, and I think what we need to focus on, is always going to be there. We’re still scientists. Again, we’re not going to lose sight of that just because we have humor.

But that’s where the bias comes into play, and I want to dispel that. I want to reshape that stereotype so that we can establish a rapport, engage with our patients, and assess every individual’s preference, right? How they like to learn. So if they need a serious doctor, we’re serious in the clinic. If they need a doctor who hugs them and talks to them about their families and their dog and their social life, and bonds over the last concert we both attended, we’re going to do that.

Sometimes the best work that I do is listening and not talking. When we just sit back and we’re quiet and we give patients that space, they will tell us so much more about themselves, way more than what their chart will tell us. That’s how we form those bonds, and how we break down those barriers and serve our patients the best.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Erika Visser Aragona. She’s a family physician, and she wrote the KevinMD article “Can doctors have personalities?” Erika, for those physicians who do want to show more of their personalities online and build more of an online presence, to do everything that you want them to do, how can they get started?

Erika Visser Aragona: I think the first thing is just to get out there. A lot of the names that I threw out, I’d love for you and everyone to check out those doctors, because they’re doing it. They’re doing so much good, and you can see how it’s been successful, and you can replicate it in your own voice and your own narrative.

I think the take-home message would be: Let’s take it back. Let’s take medicine back. Let’s make it accurate, let’s get rid of the information, and let’s make the internet a platform that does so much more positive when physicians finally speak out and show their true colors in a positive and respectful manner, and also make it fun and relatable.

Kevin Pho: Erika, thank you again for joining me on the show. Thanks for your time and insight, and thanks again for sharing your enthusiasm.

Erika Visser Aragona: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much.

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