Coaching or mentorship: What is the solution for physicians? [PODCAST]

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“Over the years, I have mentored a lot of trainees. After discovering coaching and seeing my career transform after I started working with a coach, I have become a coach myself. I definitely use coaching techniques with my mentees, but the relationship I have with them is different from the one I have with my coaching clients. Coaching and mentorship are different but complementary approaches to moving your career forward. Potential clients often come to me expecting mentorship. My colleagues have also inquired about the difference between a mentor and a coach. While everyone’s style is a bit different, and both approaches can co-exist in the same relationship, I am reflecting here on what represents coaching versus mentorship.”

Emilie Belley-Cote is a critical care physician.

She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, “Coaching or mentorship: What is the solution for physicians?”

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Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show. Rate and review at KevinMD.com/rate. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/podcast. Today on the show, we have Emilie Belley-Cote. She is a critical care physician. Her KevinMD article, which we’ll talk about today, is titled “Coaching or mentorship: What is the solution for physicians?” Emilie, welcome to the show.

Emilie Belley-Cote: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I’m delighted to be here.

Kevin Pho: So we’ll get into your article in a little bit, but first off, briefly share your story and journey to where you are today.

Emilie Belley-Cote: All right. Well, I’m a cardiologist by training, and I then did a critical care fellowship. So my practice now is critical care cardiology, working mostly in the cardiovascular ICU and in the CCU. I’m also a researcher, which actually takes the better part of my time. And in 2017, as I was trying to wrap up my PhD, because I did a PhD in clinical epidemiology, I felt a little bit stuck. I felt like I had always worked towards goals that had very clear deadlines, but the PhD was something that didn’t have a deadline; I had to drive myself. And at some point, a bit later, in 2018, I felt a little bit desperate to find a way to make it move forward. That’s when I discovered coaching, and over time, I became pretty passionate about it. So this is what the article I wrote speaks about.

Kevin Pho: So tell me about that time when you said you felt stuck, because I think what you described is very common for a lot of physicians, right? You go to premedical training in undergrad, then you go to medical school, then you go to residency, then you go to fellowship, and it’s a fairly defined path. So when you were faced with your PhD, I assume it had open-ended deadlines; you just get it done whenever you get it done. How exactly did that make you feel?

Emilie Belley-Cote: I’m a pretty driven person. I think we all are, right, to get into med school and then to continue our careers. But I felt a little bit lost at that point. Despite being driven, I didn’t know in which direction to go. I didn’t really know how to organize my time, or how to really focus while being productive. That really also felt like a failure, because, again, we’re used to just getting stuff done, like getting the next test done, getting the next rotation done. But that was something that really didn’t have an end. And also, as a perfectionist, it felt even worse, in that I wanted it to be perfect, and I kept rewriting the same sentence because it felt like I could do a better sentence.

Kevin Pho: So for those who aren’t familiar with a PhD program, just tell us, what kind of requirements did you have to face?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, so the beginning of a PhD was fine, right? Because it was courses that I had to get done and then a few exams, and projects that were time-limited with very clear deadlines. But then the later part of most PhDs is writing a thesis or a dissertation. That’s where you have a few chapters that are projects, and this is the part where you have to really organize yourself and have a sense of when it is good enough. Of course, you have supervisors, but it felt very overwhelming for me.

And I’m sure many people are in the same position, where they face, and I’m talking about a PhD today, but often it can be something else. It can be writing a book. It could be being faced with writing a policy as part of an administrative role, anything that’s sort of vague, that you’ve never done before, and that you’re the main driver for without anyone pacing you. It can feel that way, I think.

Kevin Pho: How long does it typically take to write a PhD thesis?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, I mean, it depends how long you get in your own way, I suppose. But typically, a PhD is anywhere between 3 and 7 years, with most people getting it done in 4 to 5 years. And I’d say the first year to year and a half is when the courses get done, and the later part is when it’s more self-driven chapter writing.

Kevin Pho: And when you were feeling lost during that time, you said that you encountered coaching. So tell me about how you first found out about that.

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, so again, I got desperate. As someone who likes to get stuff done, I felt like I was going in circles. So I was ready to try anything. I had tried day-to-day planners and different scheduling systems, so I was ready to try something else. And I happened to follow someone on social media who had become a coach. So I was like, “I have nothing to lose at this point. I want to try anything.” And that’s when I approached my coach, and we started working together.

And I really felt a shift, not only in my PhD, but in my whole career, at that point, by discovering coaching and discovering how mindset work can really help us get out of our own way. There are also some time management strategies that have helped. But all of these things have really impacted not only me, getting that PhD done much faster than I would have alone, but also, after that, it’s helped me achieve many other goals, getting research grants, publishing articles, and building collaborations.

And sometimes, I think, for us physicians, your listeners may not really know what I mean by a coach. But when you think about it, a coach is someone who is there for you. They want the best for you. They have full faith that you can achieve what you want to achieve. And they reflect your mind, basically, so that by reflecting your mind, they help you uncover the thoughts that make you get in your own way.

And I find it very interesting that athletes have multiple coaches, right, to achieve their goals. Nowadays, writers often work with writing coaches, but as physicians or researchers, we’re expected to just figure it out.

So I’m a big proponent of working with coaches, and that’s what my article talks about, how I think, to be successful, either early in your career as a resident or later in your career, it’s really good to surround yourself with mentors. I think everyone knows what a mentor is; it’s a concept that’s very well anchored in medicine. Mentors are not people who hold your hand throughout your career, but they’re people you can go to periodically for advice. So mentors are very important, but usually, mentors will guide you by being like, “Oh, you want to do this. This is how I did this. This is the next step I think you should take.” And don’t get me wrong, this is tremendously helpful. A coach, however, is someone who’s not necessarily in your field, and they’re people who will not hold your hand, but they will be there with you and for you, and they will help you figure out how to get it done.

Kevin Pho: So give us an example of something that coach taught you that you couldn’t have done yourself. I know you’ve been through many coaching sessions, and this is probably a year-long process, but just give us a little taste. Give us an example of something that coach taught you that was particularly insightful, that you wouldn’t have been able to do yourself.

Emilie Belley-Cote: I think one of the most helpful things that I’ve learned, and this is something I now teach my residents and fellows when they’re trying to get a research project done, is that done is better than perfect. We have this tendency, I think, as physicians, most of us, to try to get things done perfectly, because we’ve always aimed for the best grade, and we want to provide our patients with the absolute best care. But there are situations in our life where aiming to get things done perfectly is not worth the incremental time cost. Getting something done and then getting people to provide input on it will get you to the same result faster than trying to get something perfect. So I think that was one of the very important messages I learned from coaching.

Kevin Pho: So I think what you said is completely right. A lot of physicians, in order to get where they are, have to be top of the class; they have to be as close to perfect as possible. And that shift in mentality, where things may be just good enough, is sometimes difficult for physicians to accept. How long did it take you to change your mindset, to adapt to that?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, I have to say I still sometimes work on it, you know? I find myself working on a paper or even a patient note, and I’m like, “Oh, I want to reword that sentence.” But then I catch myself, and I’m like, “Yeah, is it really worth it?” So I think it’s a work in progress that keeps being there, but I definitely catch myself way earlier in this process now when my perfectionist tendencies kick in.

Kevin Pho: So you talk more about that in your KevinMD article that’s titled “Coaching or mentorship: What is the solution for physicians?” You briefly touched on the differences between the two. So if you’re a physician, perhaps in a quandary, in a position where you’re not quite sure what the next step is, how do you know whether to look for a coach versus looking for a mentor?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Well, my advice is usually to go to both, right? Because I think a mentor will provide some sort of inside information, and they will provide you with some guidance based on their experience, which is quite valuable. The coach, however, is also super valuable, and they will help you uncover within yourself, like, they won’t tell you, “Oh, you need to do this. You need to do that.” They’ll help you uncover within yourself: What is the thing you really want to do? What is the next step? And they’ll help you discover how to explore that, because, again, it may not be in one session that you figure it out, you have an aha moment, and you’re like, “My life is figured out.” But they will help guide you towards figuring out what the next steps are out of this quandary.

Kevin Pho: What kind of questions should physicians ask themselves to know whether they should be looking for a coach?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, I personally think every physician needs a coach. So I think if you’re a physician and you’re wondering, for sure you need a coach. At least try it. The other thing is, everyone needs a different coach. So if you have had one bad experience, it’s worth trying someone else. But for sure, if you’re dissatisfied with your career, you feel like you’re spending your evenings charting, or you’re dissatisfied with your work environment, coaching can be very helpful.

I found coaching to be very helpful also with personal life, like when people have issues in their marriage, or they feel like they have parenting issues. Every time you feel stuck, having a coach discuss that with you and help you reflect on it can be a key to unlock it and get out of this situation.

Kevin Pho: So how do we know how to find a coach that’s the right fit? I’ve interviewed many physician coaches on this show, and you go on the internet and Google physician coaches, and you have so many options. So how do you know how to find a coach that’s the right fit for you?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, I think it’s good to do exactly what you said, right? To Google, to then read what people have written, if they have a website, to see which one speaks most to you. A lot of these coaches will be very happy to hop on the phone or on a Zoom call to just chat. You’ll know when it clicks, you know? You’ll know when you find someone that you feel comfortable with, that you feel can guide you towards your objective.

Kevin Pho: So how do you know? How does one know? What are some signs to know when it clicks? Is there anything specific they should look out for?

Emilie Belley-Cote: I think, for sure, trust your gut instinct. But beyond that, you know, if your issue is around productivity, for example, and you find a productivity coach, that’s a good fit. If your issue is around relationships, like marriage, and someone is focused on that, and this is their area of interest, then that can be a good fit. It’s a little bit like, if you have a heart problem, find a cardiologist.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Emilie Belley-Cote. She’s a critical care physician. Her KevinMD article is titled “Coaching or mentorship: What is the solution for physicians?” So going forward, when you talk to your colleagues, do the majority of them hire coaches? Is this an isolated situation? Just what’s it like among your physician colleagues? Is it widely accepted?

Emilie Belley-Cote: Yeah, I work in a male-dominated field, so I would say it’s not widely accepted. But I think the culture is shifting. I’ve had a few colleagues approach me who were interested in either becoming coaches or experiencing coaching. And I really feel like it is gaining momentum. I personally decided to work a lot with residents, because I think this is a good way to change the culture, to start them early so they get to experience the value of coaching before they’re in practice.

Kevin Pho: Do you find that male physicians are a little bit more hesitant to reach out and find a coach?

Emilie Belley-Cote: My perspective is that males in general have more trouble asking for help, or just saying that they could benefit from chatting with someone. So I think, for sure, I feel like males are a little bit later adopters, but again, the culture is changing.

Kevin Pho: So hopefully, at some point in the near future, all physicians have coaches. And my final question: What are some of your take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Emilie Belley-Cote: I would say, don’t dismiss coaching based on preconceived ideas until you’ve tried it.

Kevin Pho: Emilie, thank you so much for sharing your story, time, and insight. And thanks again for being on the show.

Emilie Belley-Cote: Thank you so much for having me.

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