What does it mean to truly be an ally? [PODCAST]

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“We can all work to improve our empathy towards those who differ from us. Please continue to keep an open mind and consider true allyship.”

Nkem Asianua is a physician assistant student.

She shares her story and discusses the KevinMD article, “What does it mean to truly be an ally?”

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Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show. Rate and review the show at KevinMD.com/rate. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/podcast. Today on the show, we have Nkem Asianua. She is a physician assistant student, and she co-wrote the KevinMD article “What does it mean to truly be an ally?” Nkem, welcome to the show.

Nkem Asianua: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Kevin Pho: So we’ll get into your article in a little bit, but first off, briefly share your story and journey to where you are today.

Nkem Asianua: So I’m living in Salt Lake City. I’m a second-year PA student in my clinical year, doing women’s health right now. It’s going great. It’s hard, but I love it. I’m happy to be doing something that makes me feel fulfilled.

Kevin Pho: Excellent. And so let’s talk about the events leading up to you writing this article. You co-wrote it, and it’s titled “What does it mean to truly be an ally?” So before getting to the article itself, what were the events that kind of led up to you co-writing it?

Nkem Asianua: Sure. So during my first year in PA school, I was a co-president of an organization called PASSED, which stands for Physician Assistant Students Supporting Equity and Diversity. We just try to put on different events and have different conversations and discussions about how to bring about equitable change in the classroom and in the community.

And so one time, we had a discussion in class, and everyone was told to raise their hand if they feel like they’re an ally towards this group and that group and this group. I noticed a lot of people raised their hands for everything, and it just kind of made me wonder: Do you know what it means to be an ally, or are you just kind of aware that, hey, this thing is bad, and I don’t agree with that, but I don’t necessarily want to stick my neck out for the situation either? And that’s OK, you know. But when I think about what I need from an ally, I wanted to talk about those things.

And so we came up with the idea to write this article and just kind of give some tips from just me. I’m just one person, in my opinion. And just have a conversation about what it means to be an ally for me, and then have the other people talk about what it means for them as well.

Kevin Pho: Sure. So before going into what it truly means to be an ally, why is having an ally important to you?

Nkem Asianua: I think that when you’re going through different things in life, struggles, discrimination, and oppression, it’s nice to feel like someone agrees, “Hey, that’s not OK, and I want to speak up for you,” to say, “I stand with you, and hopefully together we can get through this.” And that makes you feel better. It makes you not feel so alone.

Kevin Pho: So let’s talk about the article itself. What does it mean to be an ally?

Nkem Asianua: To be an ally, it’s definitely a little bit difficult. It takes energy. It takes wanting to do that. But it’s being a listener, not making assumptions about someone else’s journey, just saying, “Hey, I want to hear you. I want to hear your experience. How can I be a support to you, whether you’re there or you’re not there? And how can I improve on this? What are ways that I can go about being a better ally?”

And also learning that it’s OK to step back and say, “I don’t know if I can be an ally for you on this, but I can also just say, hey, I understand that’s not OK, and maybe sometime down the line, I could be a better ally to you.” So maybe when I get to that point, here’s some information about how I could be that person in the future. You know, it’s OK to not be that now or ever, but just to have the knowledge and say, “Hey, that’s a resource that I can use.”

Kevin Pho: So you said that being an ally sometimes takes a little bit of energy. It takes just raising up your hand in some type of meeting. So give us a scenario or a case study about some of that energy that it takes.

Nkem Asianua: Well, let’s say that you’re just walking down the street, and you’re just drinking your cappuccino, and you see that a Black man is walking his dog and minding his business. And then someone comes out of the blue and starts harassing them, making them feel very uncomfortable, and causing a scene when they’re just trying to go about their day. It does take energy and courage to step up and say “Hey” to someone else, and insert yourself and say, “Hey, that’s not OK. Why are you doing this to this person?” and engage in conversation with people. It doesn’t have to be violent or angry. It’s just stepping in and being another sounding board and saying, “Hey, what’s going on here?”

And that does take energy. You might have just wanted to keep walking down the street and enjoying your day, but you saw that something was wrong and going on, and you felt like, “Hey, that doesn’t sit well with me, so I’m going to speak up today.”

Kevin Pho: Are there misconceptions that you can share with us about being an ally?

Nkem Asianua: I think one of the misconceptions is that if you stand up for someone, you’re being closed-minded or something, or that you don’t care about anybody else. You can be an ally for different things, you know. And that’s why I think it’s important to have conversations and be calm and speak your voice, so that people don’t jump to conclusions that because I stood up for this person, I don’t care about anybody else, or nothing else really matters. It’s like, you can stand up for people all over, whatever their backgrounds or religions or titles are. It’s OK to speak up on more than one thing. I think that’s the misconception that people have.

Kevin Pho: Sometimes allies may not have your lived experience. What are some things that they should not do in order to become a better ally?

Nkem Asianua: So one thing I actually talked about in the article was, for example, for LGBTQ month, we don’t really need rainbow-colored buns, right? We need to have conversations, like, “So how do you feel?” Start with that. “How do you feel? How does this make you feel?” And just that statement can really go a long way, because I realize that not a lot of people ask people, “How are you doing with that? How is this? How’s your spirit? How is your mood? How are you dealing with this? What can I do, even if it’s not something large? Should I go to this meeting? Should I listen to this podcast?” It doesn’t have to be anything big, just to have that awareness for yourself and just let others know that you’re there.

Kevin Pho: Now, if someone comes up to you and they’re a wonderful ally, how does that make you feel?

Nkem Asianua: Like, “Wow, thank you.” You know, just thank you, because sometimes things happen in my life or other people’s lives, and it just feels like, “Man, this really sucks right now.” I don’t have any other way to put it. I’m not going to sugarcoat it. And when someone comes up and just listens to what I’m saying, and they don’t try to downplay my suffering, it makes me feel like I’m not alone in this and that people do care. And I do appreciate that, you know.

Kevin Pho: So you mentioned earlier in this interview that this article came out of this group that you mentioned. It’s called PASSED, the University of Utah Physician Assistant Students Supporting Equity and Diversity group. What are some of the other issues that you discuss in those meetings?

Nkem Asianua: So we talk about religion and how that can affect people’s decisions, or even in the medical field, learning about how different religions may not go about things the way that we, or I, would go about something. A hot topic was, of course, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, just talking about women’s rights and their bodies and stuff like that. Gender identity, and just different cultures, and having the competence and the awareness to understand the differences between different cultures and how you go about being open-minded to that.

And a lot of the stuff that we do is just having conversations. Like, if I have a student who’s like, “Hey, in my culture, we do this. I want to celebrate this,” then, “Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s talk about it,” you know. So it’s not just about race all the time. We’ve got to cover all the things, you know.

Kevin Pho: So you’re a health care professional in training, and from your perspective, in your ideal world, how much further do we have to go?

Nkem Asianua: We have a long way, and that’s why I think having these conversations is important, because it’s not something that we want to just brush under the rug, you know. I think every day you can learn something new, and I think it starts with just immersing yourself in these different situations and allowing yourself to feel uncomfortable. It’s OK. It’s OK to feel uncomfortable. But I definitely think that there’s a way to go, but it’s slowly getting there. And I think as long as we have different groups being represented in medicine, we’ll get there eventually.

Kevin Pho: So tell us what kind of resources you could recommend if someone wanted to become a better ally.

Nkem Asianua: I would start by just typing in a Google search. If you want to learn about, let’s say, women’s rights or gender rights, just type it into a Google search and see what you find. And I know that sounds really vague, but that’s kind of what I did too, because I was like, “I don’t really know one website or one resource to tell people.” You can kind of just go down a rabbit hole. But I think being in the space of wanting to do the research will take you to where you need to go.

Kevin Pho: And my final question: What are some of your take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Nkem Asianua: Just be an active listener, try to be open-minded when you can, and give yourself and others grace. I think that’ll really take people far.

Kevin Pho: Well, thank you so much for sharing your time and insight. Thanks again for being on the show.

Nkem Asianua: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

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