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We sit down with Edith Shiro, a clinical psychologist, as she takes us on a journey through her book, The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. Prepare to gain a deeper understanding of trauma and its untapped potential for personal growth and resilience. Edith’s unique perspective promises to challenge your perceptions and shed light on the transformative power hidden within adversity.

Edith Shiro is a clinical psychologist.

She discusses her book, The Unexpected Gift of Trauma.

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Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/podcast, get CME for this episode by clicking on the CME link in the show notes. Today we welcome Edith Shiro. She’s a clinical psychologist. Her book is titled The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. There’s an excerpt of that on KevinMD. We’re going to talk about her book today. Edith, welcome to the show.

Edith Shiro: Thank you, such a pleasure to be with you. I really, really appreciate it.

Kevin Pho: So we’ll talk about your book and the KevinMD article in a little bit, but just first off, briefly share your story and journey.

Edith Shiro: Well, I mean, there’s so many stories in my story, but basically right now I am a clinical psychologist. I’ve been working with people for more than 25 years. I’ve really focused on my experience with trauma, post-traumatic stress, and post-traumatic growth, because I’ve been exposed to it not just from a personal point of view but also from a professional, and in different parts of the world. So it has really allowed me to understand what’s going on in the human mind, in the human experience, and really put it all together to see how we go from trauma to healing, how we go from breakdowns to breakthroughs. So I’ve been interested in that throughout my life.

Kevin Pho: All right, and it led you of course to write your book The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. So when people think about trauma it’s normally associated with negative repercussions, negative connotations, but you frame trauma perhaps as a gift and how we can grow from that. So tell us more about that, and how that leads into your book.

Edith Shiro: Yeah, and let’s be very, very careful not to assume that traumatic events or traumatic experiences are positive. No, that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that when we encounter situations that are so overwhelming, that are shattering to our very own existence, that are really breaking our belief system about ourselves, about the world, about the people around us, there is an opportunity. It’s like something opens up to really see light in the middle of those cracks, in the middle of that breakdown.

And what I want people to know is that when we see those breakdowns, when we see those cracks, when we see that adversity as a challenging opportunity to do something different with it, as a springboard for transformation, then we can begin to see this as a possibility to go someplace else, and not just see trauma as a lifelong sentence, that it’s like, OK, that’s it, I’m doomed, this happened to me, there’s nowhere to go, I’m stuck with my problem, I’m stuck with this traumatic experience and there’s nowhere to go.

So really understanding that yes, there are other ways, there are other opportunities to see this differently, is very, very important. And that’s really why I wrote the book. Because this is something I’ve seen throughout my experience and working with patients. I’ve seen this transformation happen, I’ve seen it not just individually but collectively, with families, with communities, with groups, to say, wow, what else can we do with the experiences that we have? And this is what we can do.

Kevin Pho: So I was wondering if you could tell us some stories, some case studies, and it doesn’t have to be real patients just from a privacy standpoint, but just give us some hypothetical case studies that really illustrate that point, where sometimes opportunity can arise from trauma.

Edith Shiro: Definitely. I mean, let’s start with really early on in my life, when I grew up with Holocaust survivors, from my parents’ generation and my grandparents’ generation, and just think what some of them did with their experience and how they really connected with life appreciation, with understanding relationships from a completely different place, from having meaning in their lives, having life purpose. It really was incredible to see.

I’ve worked with Cambodian refugees in the Bronx, and really seeing how some of these survivors from the Cambodian genocide took their lives on and said, I’m going to be a leader in my community, I’m going to go through the process of healing, and then they became healers for others in their own community also.

I’ve had, for example, a couple that came to me a couple years ago during the pandemic because they were going through infidelity, and it really shattered their lifestyle, the way that they were relating to one another. And by doing the process of healing, of those steps going from trauma to growth, they became a completely different couple. The way they talk about it now, they say, we thought we knew each other before, but now we understand that we know so much about each other, we understand our relationship from a different place, we were able to heal in this difficult moment. And not only that, but really allow for this relationship to have a whole new opportunity, a whole new stage. And I’m not saying there are no problems in the relationship, for example, but you can see the evolution, you can see how amazing it is that they’ve taken it to another level.

Kevin Pho: So when someone comes to your office and talks about trauma and you’re walking them through that process, what kind of questions, and what is the process like for someone to grow from that experience?

Edith Shiro: So one of the very most important things at the beginning is, if somebody’s suffering and somebody’s going through something very difficult and you tell them, oh yeah, trauma is a gift, they’re not going to want to hear that. That’s going to be insulting. So I don’t recommend you do that at the beginning.

The first step is what I call radical acceptance. Radical acceptance is when you take a pause and you say, let me look at my life, let me look at myself and see, what is it that I’m doing over and over and over that is a repetition of a trauma response? And that trauma response shows up everywhere in my life and keeps me stuck where I am, not allowing me to evolve, not allowing me to grow.

So when we really recognize and understand that this is what we’re doing, it really makes a difference. Because it can come up in your life as an addiction, it can come up in your life as having the same kind of relationships in your life over and over, it can come up in your life as trying to do something different and never being able to do it, or you stay stuck in the depression, in anxiety, in feeling not good about yourself, about people around you. So it’s really taking a pause and saying, let me radically accept, be radically honest to who I am and where I am. And it takes a lot of courage, takes a lot of determination to be able to do that, because most of us, what we do constantly is we avoid pain, we avoid discomfort, and we will do anything not to feel pain and discomfort. So what I’m suggesting here is to say, well, let’s be courageous and say, let’s look at this.

The second step in this model is to come and look for support and extend yourself, to say, you know what, I cannot do this by myself, which is always the case. We cannot do this transformation by ourselves, we need the other. The other usually is a professional, usually it’s a guru, a master, a group of people that support you, a family member, a friend, going into a retreat, going into another part of the world. People do different things in different ways to get that safety and protection, that support. And the idea there is to be able to validate your experience, somebody that can look at you and say, I validate you, I understand you, I recognize the pain that you’re going through. That’s extremely important, not just for individuals but for groups, for cultures, for communities.

Then the third stage is going into a new narrative. How do we create new narratives and new stories about ourselves and about our relationships, in order to see that there are other options out there, that there’s a whole range of responses that we can have? It’s like we’re rewriting, rebirthing, regenerating who we are.

Then we integrate all of that, that’s the fourth stage. We integrate all of who we are, the past, the present, the future, and we understand that, so as to get to the fifth stage of wisdom and growth. And this is where the post-traumatic growth happens. This is where we have a new appreciation for life, this is when we have more meaningful relationships, and this is where we connect with something more spiritual and more meaningful.

Kevin Pho: So tell us the journey to get through those five stages. Are we talking in a span of months to years? And talk about your role as a clinical psychologist in guiding people through that journey.

Edith Shiro: So it depends, really. I mean, this is so personal, individual, and this is so determined by who we are as a person or as a group, that for some people it might take a few weeks, for some people it might take years, and everything in between.

And just to remind you and everybody, this is not a linear process. This is not like a recipe that you follow, one, two, three, four, five. This is a human experience, so we go up and we go down, we go around. It’s more like a spiral, we revisit what we’ve done and we go to the next step.

And really my role is to facilitate this process, to accompany people into knowing that this is something that can happen, and to remind the person or the group that you can get to this other side, and really becoming almost like a container, like a space holder for that transformation. This is what I do. That’s the work that I do, I hold space for transformation.

Kevin Pho: Now, for those people who may be skeptical in terms of reframing the trauma or growing from it, what do you say to people who are skeptical of that model?

Edith Shiro: So yeah, and that’s perfectly fine. I mean, the way I talk about it, it’s not that this is for everybody. Some people are fine in just staying where they are. Some people are very, very resilient, and being resilient is a great thing, because you have the resources to face your difficulties, and that’s wonderful, and we should be more and more resilient and allow for that to happen. And some people might not want to dig deeper and go through this deep transformation because they don’t need to, because it’s not happening, because life is not throwing you to that place of a complete breakdown. And that’s perfectly fine.

But if you’re touching rock bottom, if you are really at a place where nothing makes sense, when your belief system doesn’t really apply to your reality right now, when you’re understanding life in a way that you say this doesn’t make sense anymore, the way I’ve been functioning doesn’t make sense, that’s where my invitation is. Look at it and see if you can really take this opportunity to do a quantum leap into the next level.

And it takes work, it’s a process. It’s not an easy thing to do, but it’s worth it and it’s very rewarding. People tell me all the time, they say, Edith, or Dr. Shiro, going through this, I would not wish this on anybody, going through the suffering, I don’t wish it on anybody, but I would not change this for anything in the world, because this has made me who I am today. This is really the words I hear over and over and over.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Edith Shiro. She’s a clinical psychologist. Her book is titled The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. Edith, what are some of the other main messages that you want readers to come away with after reading your book?

Edith Shiro: So thank you for that question. One of the main messages is to understand that trauma is a relational experience. It means that it affects your relationships with yourself and with others. So we’re expanding the concept of what trauma is.

The other thing that I want people to know is that there is a language for this process, and that’s what I’m offering with my book, is to have a universal language to describe what we naturally go through anyway in this healing process.

And the third thing, Kevin, that I think is super important, is this message of hope, to say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, there is something that you can look forward to when something very, very difficult happens to you. And that not only is it transformational, but it also most of the time makes you connect with your life purpose. And that’s one of the most beautiful things I see over and over, is that when you get to that healing place, and when you are able to really deal with all the things that come up in this difficulty and this traumatic experience, you connect with your mission in life, with your life purpose, you become more spiritual, you become more whole in who you are in life, and you can give back to the community. So really for me, it’s so moving to see that over and over, and that’s my invitation for everybody.

Kevin Pho: And my final question, tell us some of your take-home messages that you would like to leave with the KevinMD audience.

Edith Shiro: To be very, very patient with yourself, to be very compassionate with yourself and with others, that we are in this together, being human. And especially these days, in which our humanity is being put into question with the levels of violence, aggression, hate that is happening in the world, is to remember the human factor in where we are. When we talk about what’s happening in the world, when we talk about the differences with each other, to remember that there’s a person on the other side, to be compassionate with the other ones even if you don’t agree with them, because they’re suffering too. And see if we can find some way of empathizing, connecting, interconnecting, because we are anyway, we are all interconnected. So that’s my take-home message.

Kevin Pho: Thank you so much for sharing your perspective and insight, and thanks again for coming on the show.

Edith Shiro: Thank you, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you.